Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to ask a question on behalf of Queenslanders regarding the Albanese government's commitment to net zero.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Kovacic, I've called Senator Mulholland.

Honourable senators interjecting—

I do believe the call is mine to make. I've made it. Senator Kovacic, please resume your seat. Senator Mulholland is seeking leave. Senator Mulholland, leave is denied.

A government senator: You don't need to seek leave. Just ask the question.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just ask the question.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Ayres—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Order across the chamber.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How does the Albanese government's real action on climate change—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mulholland, you were seeking leave. Leave has been denied.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just ask.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move—

An honourable senator: No! You don't have the call.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Mulholland, please resume your seat. Senator Kovacic, take your seat. I have made my call. It is not up for debate. I have given the call to Senator Mulholland. There's not a debate about this. You can continue standing, but I am not giving you the call.

James McGrath (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Shadow Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She has a point of order.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McGrath! I've asked the senator to resume her seat—

No! Senator McGrath, resume your seat. Senator Kovacic, if you have a point of order at this point—you have been standing and making a claim that you stood before Senator Mulholland, so I'm not engaging on that point of order. I've made my decision. But, if you have a further point of order, I will entertain that point of order.

Maria Kovacic (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister to the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd like to understand on what basis, given what you have just noted in terms of the agreed list for questions, I'm not permitted to ask my question given I'm next on the list?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Kovacic, I have a list that has 15 names on it. We've done question 15. That was Senator Dean Smith. Any senator, as you know, can jump at any time. Senator Mulholland jumped, and I gave her the call.

Senator Kovacic, that may be your view. It's not my view. I've given Senator Mulholland the call. She is in the process, I think, of moving a suspension, so please resume your seat.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That so much of the order of the Senate agreed to on 29 October concerning the arrangements for question time be suspended as would prevent me asking a question of the Government.

Those opposite have been an absolute rabble this week—an absolute rabble. Earlier this week we warned Australians that the 'noalition' was back and it was back again—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, on a point of order?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just wondering whether you could rule on whether the commentary so far from the senator actually goes directly to the urgency of the reason that she's suspended?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Ruston. I was going to call the senator to order, but, as we were only a few seconds in, I was going to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I'm well alive to that question. Senator Mulholland, I remind you that you need to talk about the urgency as to why you are seeking a suspension.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is disappointing that the opposition are seeking to prevent me, an elected senator for the great state of Queensland, to get up in this place. They didn't want to hear from my colleague Senator Smith about women's—

Maria Kovacic (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister to the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, I don't believe that Senator Mulholland actually moved her suspension.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She did, Senator Kovacic.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! And that is exactly why I've asked for silence.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Earlier this week we warned Australians that the 'noalition' was back. The coalition has been voting with the Greens all week in this place. They were so far off the reservation—the Greens—they were over here before, caucusing with the coalition.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mulholland, I will again remind you that you need to be informing the chamber as to why this matter is so urgent that you are seeking to suspend standing orders.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We saw on Sunday my good colleague Senator Canavan on Insiders, breaking from his usual schedule of back-to-back interviews on Sky News to go to Insiders to spread misinformation to the people of Queensland—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, on a point of order?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the matter that's currently before the chair, in terms of the urgency of the suspension, I do not believe that the senator is actually respecting your ruling and that is that she needs to tell us why this matter is so important.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! We have so many people in here with so many opinions. Senator Mulholland, I remind you once again that you need to inform the chamber as to why this matter is urgent.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, the urgency is complete misinformation being spread into Queensland and into Australia over the weekend by those opposite. I'm surprised they don't want to hear it. They've never met a net zero question or motion they don't like to hear about, so I'm surprised they don't want to hear about this one. I've spent a lot of time in regional Queensland recently meeting with farmers and meeting with industry, and they want a consistent position from this opposition on net zero. Canefarmers and sugar millers in Mackay have been part of the net zero transition.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mulholland, I need to remind you again that you need to inform the chamber as to why your matter is urgent and why you are seeking to suspend standing orders.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is urgent that we protect Queensland jobs in industry. They rely on this government to correct the record that was being spread over the weekend—the misinformation about the modelling that is being completely made up over there. I've spent time with canegrowers in Mackay. I've spent time with millers. These are people who are not just worried about net zero; they've been leading the pathway. They're not worried about it. They've been leading the pathway on net zero for decades. They have been turning cane biomass into ethanol for years.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mulholland, I am really struggling to see what the urgency of your suspension is. You need to focus on why you are seeking to suspend standing orders.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've had so many helps here.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, I might be able to hear a little clearer if you are quiet.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I understand that those opposite might be uncomfortable with a woman asking a question in this place. They seem to be so upset about that today. I know they want to silence me on this matter. They're trying to silence their own colleagues on this matter. Mr Kennedy, the member for Cook, said: 'I support net zero as a target, frankly. It's an admirable target.' Senator Hume, up the back there—I can see you up the back there—you noted, 'The electorate has told us time and time again—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mulholland, I have now lost count of the times that I have directed you to inform the Senate—

Opposition senators interjecting—

When the frontbench on my left has quite finished, you need to inform the Senate as to why your matter is urgent and you are seeking to suspend standing orders. It's not about farmers in your state, Senator Mulholland. It is about the matters—

Senator Mulholland, you are not in a debate with me.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Order on my left! The behaviour in this place is absolutely disgraceful and disrespectful. Order! Senator Mulholland, please continue.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Farmers and industry in my state have a right to know. I have a right to ask this question on behalf of them.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Perhaps you could get your colleagues to be quiet, Senator McKenzie. They haven't noticed that you are standing on a point of order.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, the senator has repeatedly ignored your request to come to the urgency of her motion that she's trying to debate, and I would ask that you rule because this is getting farcical, three minutes in to her contribution.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, what is also farcical in this place is my many, many, many attempts since 2 pm to get silence in this place. If it's farcical and people are disrespecting my authority, I would ask senators to reflect on their own behaviour. I was prepared to hear Senator Mulholland finish her sentence. I have reminded her that she needs to inform the chamber as to what is so urgent about her matter that it requires the standing orders to be abandoned.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is important and urgent that the people of Queensland hear from the minister about what the government's plan for net zero is and to go to the fact that non-executive members in this place are being barred from asking urgent questions—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's a little bit before four o'clock. The penny might be dropping over there and maybe that's the reason for the behaviour.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, you do need to get to the point of order. We're not making statements.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd ask you to draw them again. I know you've been trying. I know this is distressing for them. But I'd ask you to ask them to settle down a little bit.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again, I will remind the chamber to come to order.

Corinne Mulholland (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe it is urgent and important that the people of Queensland hear this information from the minister, and I ask that the question be heard by the Senate.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, is this on the suspension?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Environment and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We'll always remember your acting leadership.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, hopefully.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Environment and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's going very well.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I just wanted to correct the record for a number of things that have been said in this chamber during the last two hours. First and foremost is the—

A government member interjecting

We'll start with the urgency motion. This is probably one of the most serious issues that has been confronted by this chamber in the time since I started here. In 13 years, I have never seen a government so contemptuous of the conventions of this place in my time.

Government senators interjecting—

Absolutely contemptuous.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Order across the chamber! Senator Ruston, I am also going to remind you that you need to be putting a debate which opposes Senator Mulholland's request motion to suspend. I'm prepared to hear you out, but I do want to hear that perspective, and I need to hear it in silence.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The reason that I believe that it is very important that we do not suspend the Senate and we allow it to continue to operate the way it was intended to operate today is because the importance of holding the government to account is being undermined by the continuous activities of those that are opposite. I would remind those opposite about the importance of this particular provision, and, as I said, in the 13 years that I have been in this place, I have never seen a government more intent in avoiding transparency, avoiding accountability and, quite frankly, avoiding what needs to happen—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right! Minster Gallagher?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order on relevance. The Acting Leader of the Opposition in the Senate should be relevant to the question before the chair, which is whether or not the suspension should be moved.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, I do remind you to be relevant to the suspension order and why you believe it's not necessary.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The reason I believe that the suspension is unnecessary is because the actions of this chamber are determined by the majority of members in this chamber. The majority of members in this chamber yesterday determined what the order of business was going to be today. The one thing that, unfortunately, you seemed to have forgotten in the hubris of coming into government is the fact that the rule of this chamber is determined by the majority and not by the government that does not have a majority in this place.

To come in here and constantly suspend on the basis that you just want to make some silly point about the processes—and they're talking about really serious issues. The issue that Senator Marielle Smith raised is a very, very serious issue. But why didn't she ask the question during question time? If it was so serious, Senator Smith, why did you not choose to ask it in the three questions that you're always able to ask on a Thursday? Equally, Senator Mulholland, why, if your question was so important, did you not ask it in the three questions that you are always able to ask on a Thursday? There has been no more restriction whatsoever on the number of questions that the government has been able to ask this Thursday than on any other Thursday throughout the entire time of this particular parliament.

The reality is that we have got a very serious issue before the Senate. The very serious issue before this Senate is that you are still refusing to comply with the order of this Senate, as per the motion moved by Senator Pocock, to provide him with a document. So unless you are prepared to take seriously the will of this Senate—the majority of this Senate—then you continue to sit here in contempt of the Senate. There could be no more urgent or serious issue than the fact that the Labor government, the minority number of people in this place, are showing complete contempt for a decision of the Senate—absolute contempt. When you actually are prepared to come into this place and honour the greater will of this Senate, the majority of this Senate—when you're prepared to come into this place and actually accept that the will of the Senate should prevail—that will be when we accept the fact that you are not in contempt. But the reality is that things are different when they're not the same in this place, because, as I said, you come in here and you are contemptuous—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Gallagher, a point of order?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance—it sounds like the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate is about to embark on a new line of remarks and is not being relevant to the question before the chair, which is whether or not we should suspend. It sounded very much like she was about to quote something.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will listen carefully. I did think you were starting to drift, Senator Ruston, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt, and I'll continue to listen.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much. I think exactly what we just saw as a point of order is the point at stake here. That is that, every time anybody seeks to make any comment that would actually call the government out for their rank hypocrisy, their lack of transparency or their lack of accountability, they call the point of order and try and make sure they shut us down. Well, you can't shut the people of Australia down. We are sent here to do a job. This Senate has got a role to play, and the first thing that you need to realise is that the majority will of the Senate should prevail.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I welcome the opportunity to support the suspension that's been moved by Senator Mulholland and argued for very strongly. It is a legitimate point that both Senator Smith and Senator Mulholland raised, which is the right, when representing their states—the good states of South Australia and Queensland—in this place, that they be afforded the same rights as any other member of this place to ask a question. Yesterday—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again on my left—I ensured that your leader was heard in silence, and that respect will now go to Minister Gallagher. Minister Gallagher, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To continue there: the fact is that we have senators here who are being restricted, by a motion of this place, in their ability to ask questions—not only today but in an ongoing sense—including restricting Mondays to just two questions for government senators. So for everyone who turns up to work here and works hard here—not allowed anything more than two questions on a Monday and three on any other sitting day whilst everyone else is afforded the opportunity to ask a question. So we raise a legitimate point—raised by Senator Mulholland and Senator Smith.

You've had your 15 questions. We're moving into the next stage. They have every right to stand up and seek leave, just as you have a right to deny it, as you will continue to do, it seems, this afternoon. But we have a right for our senators to ask questions as well, and we will continue to argue for that through question time. We did not agree to and did not support the motion yesterday. Some come in here and talk about convention. Well, convention was ripped up yesterday. That's what happened. This chamber relies on a level of cooperation because it is a minority chamber. No-one has the numbers. It relies on cooperation; for a large part it does. Most people don't see those levels of cooperation, because it is done collegiately, just as it is done in committee systems. But yesterday that changed. And, of course, we have every right to defend our members, members of the government, and their right to ask questions through question time, which is what they're seeking to do. Moving a suspension, if that's the only way that that will be allowed—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Ruston?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Maybe you could draw the minister's attention to explain why it's so urgent.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is explaining why it's urgent, Senator Ruston. Minister Gallagher, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, how embarrassing. I had just literally said the word 'suspension' when you jumped to your feet and said that I wasn't being relevant. I literally said that the reason why—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, is this a point of order?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I wasn't talking about the speech; I was asking you why it was so urgent.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, we're not in the committee stage debating across the chamber, although, quite frankly, it feels a bit like that. Minister Gallagher, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. I think Senator Cash might have turned off the livestream by now. But—oh, God! What have they done? What have they done?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr, I'm sure you're aware that your voice is very, very loud. I would ask that you (1) not interject, but, if you are going to ignore my order, then do it quietly.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We did not support the motion yesterday. We didn't support the motion because, for as long as I can recall—and we can go back and check—the convention has been that the roster for question time is presented by the government but agreed across the parties, and yesterday that changed. Senator Smith wanted to ask a question on women's health—denied by this chamber. Senator Mulholland wants to ask a question about net zero—denied by this chamber. So we can seek leave and support our members and their right to ask questions, and we will make you deny them leave. Everyone will watch you—this shambles of an opposition that can't agree on how to handle a bill without requesting it to be split; everyone will watch you and see the shambles that you are and the way that you treat this chamber. That's what they'll see. That is the lesson for this week. We will support the rights of our team to ask the important questions that the people of Australia care about—not waste two questions about questions about themselves, which is how we kicked off this question time today. Questions about the economy, questions about women's health, questions about net zero, questions about industry—all across the board—questions about family and domestic violence and questions about the racial discrimination act. That's what this government does. It focuses on the issues that matter to the Australian people, while those opposite focus on themselves, fight themselves—disunity, division—the shambles that they are. We will ensure that our elected representatives get treated with the respect that they deserve, the respect that everyone else in this chamber expects, and they have their right to ask questions in this chamber. That is what we will do, and we will continue to do it.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak to the suspension. The urgency of it, I would argue, is severely lacking. I would be calling Minister Collins, the agriculture minister, whose staff I'm sure will be watching in this chamber, to please reach out to Senator Mulholland, reach out to colleagues—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, you've been very quick on your feet to draw people to the issue of the suspension—

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The urgency of the suspension—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You need to get there pretty quick because I haven't heard it yet, so please continue.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll start again. I rise to speak on the lack of urgency on this suspension, because having been the minister for agriculture of this great country, I can say that my door was always open to every single backbencher, every member of the Labor Party—had they ever chosen to come and talk to me about agriculture—and every member of the parliament if they wanted to actually raise an issue about agriculture. So to Minister Collins, who has the great privilege of being the agriculture minister, you've heard Senator Mulholland talk about Queensland cane farmers—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance to the urgency, I'm not sure what agricultural policy has to do with it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, I am going to draw you to the issue of the suspension. The issue of the suspension is whether you believe it is urgent or not urgent. That is where your remarks need to go. It's not about visiting ministers or anything like that but about why it's either relevant or not relevant.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I understood Senator Mulholland's request for urgency in her question, it was about concern for Queensland cane farmers and other farmers in regional Queensland that she's met. She had a question that was so urgent she needed to ask it today. My response to that is: she should be able to knock on the door of her own colleague Minister Collins and ask the question of her and not just for the cane farmers—they might want to get involved in biofuels with their cane waste—but the cattle industry up in northern Queensland—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie you are drifting.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

or, indeed, the importation of Philippine bananas.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You need to focus on the suspension.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am on the suspension.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, you're not in a debate with me.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm not—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is about the suspension of the Senate.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes—the suspension of the Senate which is being requested so a certain senator can ask questions about cane farmers in Queensland. I'm concerned that the tactics committee of the Labor government has not sought to prioritise Queensland cane farmers or, indeed, middle-aged women in Adelaide on behalf of Senator Smith, who lives just down the road from the Minister for Health, Disability and Ageing. She could literally just go and ask Mark Butler on behalf of her constituents. She could even run a forum next weekend in Adelaide on the issue she—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Polley?

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Through you, President, could you remind the good senator to use peoples' titles. As someone who was a minister, surely you would know you can't just go and knock on the door and see a minister when it suits you.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Polley, I did not take note as to whether Senator McKenzie referred to ministers by their correct titles. She usually does. But I am going to remind you, Senator McKenzie, it is not about whether ministers are available or not available; it's about the matter at hand. It is the suspension of the Senate and whether the matter is so urgent—or not urgent, in your view—that is at debate, so please focus your remarks on that.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will be laserlike in my focus.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Excellent.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When Senator Mulholland was talking about the types of questions she wanted to ask, she referred to 2050, I think, as a timeframe. That's a quarter of a century away. We have question time next week. If the Labor Party's argument is that it is so urgent—I would argue the Labor Party executive has discerned that it's not urgent, because their own question time tactics committee put other questions ahead of Senator Mulholland's Queensland farmers and Senator Smith's issues around health. It is not this chamber's role to do the tactics committee decision-making that Senator Gallagher and Senator Farrell are actually in charge of.

What we are concerned about in this chamber is that it's not a convention that's being broken. This question time was an order of the Senate, not a convention. It's an order of the Senate as of yesterday, and you are all in contempt of it, because how this question time was meant to be operating is not a convention. The executive branch of the government of this parliament is taking unprecedented steps to influence and coerce members of parliament. This chamber is sovereign, alright? It's sovereign under our Constitution. And you might not like the orders of the Senate, but you have to comply with them.

I am a former minister that had to comply with an order of the Senate to do something unprecedented: to appear before a Senate committee and answer questions. I respect this chamber, I respect its authority, and I respect its sovereignty and my responsibilities. I did that. The Labor Party's absolutely ridiculous response here today has shown they are not up for being accountable and transparent as a government. They don't want to release documents. They don't want to be subjected to FOIs. They don't want their ministers to turn up and make explanations.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, you're drifting off the point again. It's about the suspension.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The unprecedented action that this chamber took yesterday to change the way question time—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator McKenzie.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would argue that the motion is urgent. It is urgent because it's important. It's urgent because it's important, and it's important because it goes to a series of questions that go to the question that the senator was proposing to ask itself. It goes materially to the urgency of that question. It goes to the rights of senators, particularly backbench senators in this Senate, 19 of them, whom yesterday's resolution would disenfranchise entirely by deliberate design from a majority resolution of this Senate. It's important and it's urgent because it goes to the conventions and the kind of modes of behaviour and the modes of operation that a minority chamber demands. That's why it's important and it's urgent.

I can tell you that, in addition to that, it is urgent because what it does is expose the lack of political judgement and the lack of interest in the democratic institutions that are engaged and the democratic principles that are engaged in this place. It is not a majority chamber. It is a chamber where there are a series of parties, none of whom commands a majority themselves. What that means is that conventions really matter and that, if you adopt an approach which is all about trying to impose, by majority will, on the chamber to exclude people—

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order—or maybe you could ask for a point of clarification—on 'enforce the majority view', I was wondering if the minister might—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, you know very well that's a debating point. Please resume your seat.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Fundamentally, what has been exposed this afternoon is the lack of judgement of those opposite and the self-absorption of those opposite.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order, Madam President: I have not heard the urgency that the minister is going to.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being directly relevant to the question. I will continue to listen very closely.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a series of parties who pretend to aspire to government and are entirely absorbed by themselves.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order, President: this is just general abuse. It's not going to the urgency point.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will listen very carefully to the remainder of this sentence, and, as you should have observed by now, if any senator is not being relevant, I will remind them to be relevant. I am listening very carefully.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said at the outset, this matter is urgent because it's important because it goes to the capacity of this chamber to perform its proper function. There have been some assertions made in this debate. I was listening to Senator McKenzie talk about the sovereign role of this chamber, and I was reminded of a question that was asked by one of the senators from One Nation, or a contribution earlier, where he quoted—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I've got Senator Scarr on his feet.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, Senator Ayres is now drifting off to questions asked by One Nation. It doesn't go to the urgency in relation to the matter before the President.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Ayres started off, if you were listening, by referring to a contribution that Senator McKenzie made, which was directly relevant. He has just, as you indicated, mentioned One Nation. If that is not relevant, I will draw him to the point, but he is being relevant, and give me an opportunity to hear the rest of his contribution.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The senator referred to a constituent whose name, he alleged, was Carlos Montoya. I refer Senator McKenzie to the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, who said in The Princess Bride:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

That is the wrong approach—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are not being relevant to the suspension. Senator Henderson.

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Another point of order. Could I ask that you ask the senator to direct his comments through the chair please.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Henderson. Minister Ayres, I remind you to direct your comments to me.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And I will. I simply think that, as I indicated, this matter has some importance. It is urgent that it is dealt with this afternoon. I'm entitled, absolutely, to respond to the contentions that are being made by others in this debate. We will continue to be here, available to answer questions, all afternoon, all night. We will be here all through next week answering questions, and, on that basis, I move:

That the question be now put.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You wish me to address the point of order, Senator Scarr? The minister has sat down.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He's talking about answering questions all evening. It's totally irrelevant.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has now asked that the motion be put. I am going to move to that. The question is that the question be put.

Honourable senators interjecting—

I am just wondering how long I have to stand here.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Transparency warriors!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Oh, just continue on, Senator McKenzie, because we're all here for your benefit! I stood because this place was out of order. We are at adults, and, earlier this week, we passed a motion about respect. In the last 2½ hours, I have really struggled to see that. It is one thing to have a robust debate; it is quite another to ignore me when I call for order.

The question is that the question be put.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe there is one minute left, Senator Paterson.

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the question of urgency, I have empathy for Senator Mulholland and Senator Smith. We've all been there, as a government backbencher, hoping to get a question in question time, hoping the tactics committee will pick our question, but sometimes we don't get our question up. That can be frustrating; that can be disappointing. But when you're upset about that, when you're angry about that, you've got to direct your frustration to the right place. The people who decide who gets to ask the questions that you're allocated is not the chamber. It's not the opposition, it's not the crossbench and it's not even the Greens. It's your own tactics committee. It's your own leadership. If your colleagues agreed with you that your questions were genuinely urgent, they would have given you one of the many questions that you could've asked this week—one of the three questions that you had this week. As touched as I am by your efforts to fight for the ancient right to ask dixers, I can say they're not convincing anyone.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The time for this debate has expired. The question is that the motion to suspend be agreed to. A division is required, so the matter will be deferred to next week because we are at the point where there are no divisions.