Bridget McKenzie Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development
2:38 pm
My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Thousands of Australian family farms use trusts as a core means of managing risk, protecting assets, supporting succession-planning and investing for the long term. There are more than 37,000 trusts operating in the agriculture, fisheries and forestry businesses. Trusts help farmers manage severe income volatility from drought, natural disasters, seasonal conditions and trade disputes. Will the government guarantee Australian farmers will not be forced to pay more to obtain advice and restructure their trusts just to help manage risks to their businesses?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
2:39 pm
Can I make the point that I made earlier, which is that in fact the vast majority of Australians do not use trusts. I know that the coalition wants to try and make this about the majority of Australians; 95 per cent of Australians—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Senators:
Opposition senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order! Senator McKenzie, when you asked your question, you could have heard a pin drop in the chamber. The minute the minister stood up, you all thought, you and other senators, it was time to interject. The minister will be shown the same respect as you were shown when you asked the question—that is, no interjections. Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
I again say the vast majority of Australians will not be affected. Let me explain two points very clearly to the senator. One, 95 per cent of Australians do not receive income from a discretionary trust. Second, farming income is exempt.
Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Environment and Water
There you go.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
So there you go. There's your two points. Firstly, 95 per cent of Australians do not receive income from a discretionary trust. Secondly, farming income will be exempt.
Now, I have no doubt that, despite that, we will see a fear campaign from those opposite. It is happening now, just as it's happened on all of the tax reform we have engaged in. What they have never explained is how they will fund their promise to roll all of this back, without hitting ordinary working Australians—because it is this tax package which has ensured tax cuts for Australians, and Australians need these tax cuts. These are important in the cost-of-living situation that we have. Part of how the government is addressing cost-of-living challenges is to ensure working Australians get a tax cut. But you want to roll back these tax changes, you want to make sure you don't pass savings measures and then you demand more spending. The only way you're going to be able to do that is to go back to the Senator Hume model of higher taxes for the next election.
Bridget McKenzie Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development
2:42 pm
Farmers have not been exempted from Labor's trust taxes on income earnt from on-farm processing, livestock transport, contract harvesting services, agritourism and other businesses that are intended to build financial resilience for our farming communities. What assessment has the government undertaken on restructuring and stamp duty compliance costs that Australian farmers will have to incur as a result of Labor's tax changes?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
Again, I say this: 95 per cent of Australians do not get any trust income; 95 per cent of Australians don't get any—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Senators:
Opposition senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Minister Wong, please resume your seat. I remind you, Senator McKenzie and other senators—Senator McKenzie, your question was heard in silence. That same respect is shown to the minister. If you can't keep quiet, I invite you to leave the chamber. Minister Wong.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
The vast majority of Australians will not be affected by these changes. Ninety-five per cent of Australians receive no income from trusts. The advice I have is farming income will be exempt. Farming income will be exempt, and the government has and will—
Bridget McKenzie Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development
Point of order on direct relevance—I acknowledge the exemption, but on-farm income—
Sue Lines President
Senator McKenzie, no, you're not in a debate. Resume your seat. You've raised a point of order. The minister is being relevant, and I—
You're not in a debate with me. You've asked me to rule. I've ruled. You can agree or disagree with it, but you are not in a debate with me. Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
What I was going to say is that, obviously, the government is consulting about—
Matthew Canavan Queensland, Liberal National Party
Shouldn't you have done that before?
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Like the widows tax.
Sue Lines President
Senator Cash! It's not okay to jump on a point of order and try and say that the minister is not being relevant, and then the minister gets to her feet and the interjections start all over again. You are to listen in silence or leave the chamber. It's simple—one or the other. Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
I would make two points. The first is that the 30 per cent tax on distributions from discretionary trusts commences in July 2028, so you might have a smart alec interjection there, Senator Canavan, but the reality is that this is not coming into effect until July 2028. The second point I would make is that— (Time expired)
Bridget McKenzie Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development
2:45 pm
On Sunrise this morning, the Minister for Housing conceded businesses would face costs for advice and restructuring because, as the minister said, 'we want to have a fair tax system'. Senator Wong, how is it fair to impose on our food and fibre producers unnecessary costs to obtain advice and restructuring just to manage the risks in their business?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
As I said yesterday in relation to small business, I made the point that the government had committed to including rollover relief for three years to facilitate the restructuring of entities ahead of the July 2028 start date. Senator, you ask a question about what is reasonable. Why is it reasonable for you to demand that working Australians who earn money from income from labour have to pay higher taxes because you want to roll back all of these tax changes? That's the reality. You should be clear. You want higher taxes on working people.
Bridget McKenzie Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development
On relevance—is the minister suggesting farmers aren't workers?
Sue Lines President
I found it almost impossible to hear the minister—
Senator McKenzie, don't be—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Order across the chamber! There is no point of order. I would ask for silence in the 13 seconds that are remaining, and, if you can't manage that, I invite you, once again, to leave. You are being incredibly disrespectful to me. I stood, and the debate across this chamber and the shouting and the rudeness continued.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
People should be fairly taxed for their labour, whether they are working on a farm or working in a factory. That is the reality. But what the coalition is arguing for will end up in higher taxes on working people—the Senator Hume policy model—because that is the only way you can add this all up. (Time expired)