Senate debates Questions without Notice
Human Rights: Incarceration
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
2:32 pm
My question is for the Minister for Women, Minister Gallagher. Minister, Labor claims to oppose violence against women, yet your government plans to vote to continue to allow mothers to be shackled, chained down to the bed, while they are in labour and giving birth. How can you claim to care about women while allowing this state sanctioned violence and torture to continue, when your government has the power to stop it?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I thank Senator Thorpe for the question. Before I come to the specifics of—I think it's in relation to—the private senator's bill that you have brought into this chamber, Senator Thorpe. I should say that I think all of us in this place take women's safety and ending violence against women and children as a top priority.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
It has been a top priority for our government, including not only in investment that we have made—billions of dollars, including in significant work that has been undertaken to ensure that we have an action plan that is specifically dedicated to ending violence against women and children in First Nations communities that has been led by Minister Plibersek.
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
All women are being [inaudible]. Don't make this a Blak issue.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I'm just explaining what we have done, to give some context. In relation to your private senator's bill, which I believe we are debating tomorrow—so not to get ahead of that—I think the stories that you have raised about the practice of shackling of pregnant women who give birth under custodial sentences are extremely concerning—
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
The evidence. Not stories; it's evidence.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
but I would also say that the responsibility for the criminal justice system is predominantly one that—
Sue Lines President
I've asked you several times to come to order. Come to order and stop interjecting.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
The responsibility of the criminal justice system is one that predominantly rests with the states and territories. However, we are working with states and territories on these matters—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
who are the ones who hold the levers for change. That is the approach we have taken. There are different responsibilities for different levels of government in our Federation. (Time expired)
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
2:34 pm
Minister, you say that states and territories should solve this—you handballed it, we expected that. In the last couple of years the clear pattern is that states and territories are moving away from protecting people's rights. What makes you think that shackling is the one topic where they will suddenly act to address barbaric human rights violations that are also causing baby deaths?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
2:35 pm
I can talk about the areas that the Commonwealth has responsibility for, and I've already outlined in my previous answer that while the states and territories run the criminal justice systems—and, in particular, the jails and other places of detention—across Australia, we are working with states and territories who hold those levers for change. In other areas of responsibility, we have about reducing the numbers of people in jail, there are a number of programs that the Commonwealth does take responsibility for and is heavily investing in, and that work is led by the Attorney-General and by the Minister for Indigenous Affairs.
As I said at the beginning, we are concerned about the stories raised about the practice of shackling pregnant women, and we will continue to work through these issues with the states and territories.
Sue Lines President
Senator Thorpe, I'm waiting for order. I haven't called you. Senator Thorpe, second supplementary?
Sue Lines President
Senator Thorpe, withdraw.
An honourable senator interjecting
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
I beg your pardon? You have some respect!
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
Don't tell me what to do; you're not the President.
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
Thank you, President. Do you accept, Minister, that your decision to vote against my shackling bill will mean more women will be subjected to this violent, barbaric practice and more babies will be put in harm's way? Do you accept that?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
2:37 pm
As I outlined in my previous answer, states and territories have responsibility for running the jails—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I've answered the question.
Sue Lines President
Senator Thorpe, I haven't called you. It is not appropriate to stand up and yell. If I don't see that you're standing, that's the clerk's job to tell me. I was making notes of your question to make sure I understood the question properly. You are now standing—Senator Thorpe?
Sue Lines President
No, the minister's being directly relevant to your question, Senator Thorpe.
Lidia Thorpe Victoria, Independent
The question wasn't about handballing.
Sue Lines President
Senator Thorpe, resume your seat. The minister is being relevant to your question. Did you have anything further to add, Minister?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I've only to add that, regardless of a private senator's bill, the states and territories have responsibility for running the jails across this country. We have different responsibilities in relation to—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
There are federal responsibilities in relation to child care, Senator Thorpe. The states and territories run the correctional settings across the country. We will continue to work with them.
Sue Lines President
Senator Thorpe, come to order. I don't want to have to name you.