Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Indigenous Australians. Sadly, on the weekend we've had another death in custody of an Aboriginal man. A year ago, another Aboriginal man lost his life in that same prison. When he told police he was going to kill himself, the officer replied, 'Yeah, whatever.' Minister, on the 35th anniversary of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, in April, you offered thoughts and prayers. But what actions have you actually taken to hold state and territory governments accountable for the state sanctioned murder of our people in jails?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Thorpe for the question. There are way too many deaths in custody, not just of Indigenous people but of all people. Unfortunately it continues in terms of the incarceration rates. I have certainly worked on this. I know that there has been a committee of the Senate, and I welcome that Senate inquiry currently underway into the justice reinvestment programs that we are rolling out across the country. At the Commonwealth level, we see that our part in all of this, knowing that the states and territories are the ones responsible for the jailing of any citizen, is to push out the justice reinvestment programs.

There are justice reinvestment programs—over 30—that are running out all across the country. We know that there are, in places like the Northern Territory, success in those. In places like Groote Eylandt, for example, where I know the inquiry has visited, we are having success. That success only comes when local people and First Nations people are at the table to ensure that there is support for First Nations people so that they don't go into jails. It's a long road; it's a very difficult one. And I do call on the states and territories to work harder in this space and to certainly work with us as we try to reduce the numbers of Aboriginal people in custody.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, first supplementary?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) | Link to this | Hansard source

We all know that Closing the Gap targets around incarceration will not be met by the 2031 deadline. Outcomes in many areas are getting worse. Shouldn't we overhaul or get rid of Closing the Gap now, rather than let this hopeless agreement continue for another five years while people keep dying?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the answer to that is no, Senator Thorpe. We don't just give up. We don't just roll over and say no. We have 80 organisations. Over 800 members in those organisations are part of Closing the Gap. This is First Nations people at the grassroots level, Senator Thorpe. It is grassroots people who are fighting hard to close that gap. What I have to do is keep working with the state and territory ministers, not just First Nations ministers but also every single minister around the cabinet table, which includes here at the Commonwealth. That's every single minister, because every jurisdiction has signed up to this, Senator Thorpe. We don't roll up and roll away. We stand there and fight to improve the lives of First Nations people. Just because it's hard, just because it's difficult, it doesn't mean we give up.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, second supplementary?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) | Link to this | Hansard source

Why can't you do things like tie funding to actual progress and set minimum standards around cops and jails in this country—

Stop it; I'm speaking—given that state and territory governments will not protect our people's rights?

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll wait for order.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) | Link to this | Hansard source

Don't you speak over me. Pull him up, Greens—pull him up!

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe! I will manage the chamber, and I've asked those people to come to order. Minister McCarthy.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, Senator Thorpe, I have. I've spoken in this house. I've spoken about the need to ensure that, through the federal funding agreements that the Commonwealth has with state and territory governments, there has to be accountability. I've done that with the Northern Territory, through the Northern Territory Remote Aboriginal Investment. You've had a briefing on it. You've got the paperwork. You asked through an OPD here for all the information. You have it in front of you. Read it, Senator Thorpe.