Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health, Senator McKenzie. Yesterday, the Minister for Finance refused to rule out any cut to the distribution of GST to South Australia and Tasmania. The Productivity Commission's interim report into the economic impact of horizontal fiscal equalisation proposed cuts to the distribution of GST revenue of $557 million to South Australia and $168 million to Tasmania. Can the minister confirm that a cut this severe is equal to cutting 4,996 nurses in South Australia and 1,507 nurses in Tasmania?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Regional Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Senator Brown, for your question. I really do appreciate it. In my capacity representing the Minister for Health and the specific numbers you raised in your question, I will have to seek his advice on exactly the interplay around that particular issue.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown, do you have a supplementary question?

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I do. Has the minister discussed the possible impact of these severe cuts to GST distribution on state and territory health systems with any of his state counterparts? If so, when and with whom?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I will take Senator Cormann on a point of order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown is asking a hypothetical question in relation to a matter that is not part of Senator McKenzie's portfolio. Senator Brown is well aware that I said yesterday that the government had not formed any view, that there is a draft report from the Productivity Commission which is yet subject to further consultation and that any changes to the GST sharing arrangements, if they were to occur, are of course subject to the agreement of all the states and territories.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, that's going to the substance of the question. I'm happy to rule on the question. Senator Wong?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yesterday the Leader of the Government in the Senate had the opportunity to rule out changes to the GST. He did not do so. It is not a hypothetical, given he failed to do that. We are asking about the impact of the proposed cuts on health systems in Tasmania and South Australia. That is within her portfolio.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, I'm happy to rule on the point of order. The question began—I took in my notes with noise in the chamber—with, 'Has the minister discussed'. I understand that to be a question directly relevant to the minister's representative portfolio, because it asks about the action of a minister. The rest of it is a matter of political debate. The minister is free to address the political debate in her answer. Senator Brown, would you like to continue your question? I believe your question—have you concluded your question, or were you continuing it?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why don't you say—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On my left! I'm asking one of your colleagues whether she would like to continue her question, because it was interrupted by a point of order. Senator Brown?

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I had finished my question.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Regional Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Senator Brown. As you know—as everybody in this chamber knows—any change to GST distribution is a result of all states and territories having to agree. You ask about the conversations I may or may not have had with state health ministers. I have spent the last four weeks, obviously, getting across the portfolio as a result of the changes made just prior to Christmas. I have been out at Broken Hill, Moranbah and Gympie, talking to the Royal Flying Doctor Service on how we can improve health services to regional—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, on a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: whilst Senator McKenzie's travel itinerary may be of interest to her, we asked her a question as the Minister representing the Minister for Health. Therefore, when we ask her, 'Has the minister had any conversations?', it is clearly the Minister for Health. We asked her in her representative capacity. Her diary's not that interesting.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, on a point of order?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the same point of order—the question was in relation to discussions that the minister has had. She is clearly answering the question in relation to discussions that she's had. There has been no proposal along the lines that Senator Brown suggested, so there's no capacity to have discussions on proposals.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cormann, that is not a point of order, the second part of your commentary. On the point of order, Senator Wong, I believe the question could've legitimately been interpreted both ways as there was a lot of noise in the chamber when it was being asked. When I ruled on the earlier point of order, I did clarify it—'Has the minister discussed' were the words I used. I draw the minister's attention to the question, but she's free to continue her answer.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Regional Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Senator Brown, using the alternative interpretation of your question—I do not know if the Minister for Health has been discussing this with other health ministers across the federation. As I stated earlier, any changes to GST have to be agreed to by state and territory ministers prior to any further subsequent discussions, but I will take advice from the health minister for you.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown, a final supplementary question?

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, a second supplementary, Mr President: when will the Turnbull government come clean with the people of South Australia and Tasmania about their plans and the impact on the services they rely on?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Sorry. There were interjections coming across the chamber, to the point where I could not hear the question. Senator Wong, I believe you might have started that one.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No!

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If I'm wrong, I apologise. Yours was the first voice that I heard.

Senator Wong interjecting—

All right. Senator Brown, can I ask you to ask the question again, because I didn't hear it.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When will the Turnbull government come clean with the people of South Australia and Tasmania about their plans and the impact on services they rely on?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Regional Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Brown, for your valiant attempts to run a scare campaign from the Senate on any potential conversations. There have been no conversations on looking at the GST.

Senator Carol Brown interjecting—

No, what I said was, 'On changing the GST, states and territories have to agree.' There is no discussion, so I completely reject your question.