Anne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. Yesterday, in response to a question I asked the minister in relation to Prime Minister Turnbull's support for a pay cut of up to $77 for up to 700,000 Australian workers, the minister said, 'The Prime Minister has said no such thing, and your assertion that he has done so is not the truth.' On 17 March, when asked by Neil Mitchell of 3AW whether he supported the cut to penalty rates, the Prime Minister said, 'Well, we do support it Neil, and I've been very clear about that.' Given the Prime Minister's very clear support for the pay cut, when will the minister correct the record?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The problem with your question, Senator Urquhart, is that is not what I was asked. You asserted, and others among you, including Senator Cameron, asserted, that the government had recommended or argued that there ought to be a pay cut, and it did no such thing. You know it did no such thing, Senator Urquhart, but it did not stop you from making a false claim to the contrary. It is the case that the government supports the independence of the Fair Work Commission and, therefore, supports every determination of the Fair Work Commission, because if you support the independence of a court, a tribunal or an arbitral body of course you uphold its decisions. That is what the government has done. That is what the Prime Minister said. But that is not what you put to me yesterday.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Urquhart, a supplementary question.

Anne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why is the minister so desperate to hide the Prime Minister's support for a pay cut for up to 700,000 Australian workers that he is willing to mislead the Senate?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You did not listen to the answer, Senator Urquhart. It is a bit rich from someone like you, Senator Urquhart, who sits in a party led by a man—Bill Shorten—who made a career out of taking backhanders and secret commissions from business to sell workers down the river—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a number, but first let us do 'directly relevant'. I know that this leader believes that personal abuse is the way to get out of trouble, and I am very happy to continue to say—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On direct relevance, Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. It is clearly not relevant to the question. The Labor Party is hardly relevant to the question that was asked. I think it is self-evident.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brandis, I will remind you of the question. You have 37 seconds in which to answer the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If it was not clear to you before, Senator Urquhart, let me be explicit: I entirely reject the premise of your question. If you are concerned about the wellbeing of workers, why do you sit behind a man—Bill Shorten—who, as a union leader, took backhanders, secret commissions and bribes that were concealed from his members to sell them down the river on their pay and conditions—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Attorney-General, I do believe the allegation you made about the Leader of the Opposition is unparliamentary. A point of order, Senator Gallagher.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just to be clear, there were a number of different references there that we would object to, including one previously around, I think, taking backhanded payments. The aspersion is disorderly and should be ruled out of order.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I asked the Attorney-General to withdraw. He immediately withdrew those remarks. Senator Wong, on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I apologise, Mr President; it was my error in my first point of order. I ought to have sought that you require the Attorney-General to withdraw the reference to 'backhander'.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Attorney-General, I assume you have, but I will double-check. Attorney-General, if you would withdraw that reference also?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you wish me to. I will confine it to secret commissions. It all means the same thing, of course: payments taken and concealed from the members of the union to sell them down the river, to sell out their pay and conditions— (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, a point of order.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, the Leader of the Government in the Senate has now suggested that the Leader of the Labor Party has undertaken an illegal act in referring to secret commissions. That is a criminal act and he knows it. He ought to withdraw it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Attorney-General.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I address the point of order, please. In fact, those payments are the very thing that the government has introduced legislation into the House of Representatives last week to outlaw and is being opposed by the Labor Party—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not a point of order; that is a debating point. In relation to the words that the Attorney-General has withdrawn, I am satisfied that those words have been withdrawn. On 'secret commissions', Senator Carr, I will reflect upon that. But I do not believe, in the context that was used by the Attorney-General, that that would breach that provision of the standing orders, but I will reflect upon that. Senator Urquhart, a final supplementary question.

Anne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that we know the Prime Minister supports these cuts to penalty rates, will the minister now come clean with the Senate about the government's support for these cuts being extended to workers in other sectors, who also rely on penalty rates to put food on the table?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I addressed that yesterday. As the commission itself has said, there is absolutely no reason for you to assert that, because it made a determination in relation to the hospitality industry, it will make a determination of a similar or like character in relation to any other industry. I know the lying machine of the Labor Party is trying to spread that story around the place, but it is not true.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

With respect, I ought not to have to stand for that—'lying machine of the Labor Party'. Are you going to allow that to stand, Mr President? It is suggesting every member of the Labor Party lies. That is the suggestion.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Attorney-General.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not suggesting that every member of the Labor Party or any individual member of the Labor Party is a liar. What I am suggesting is that the Labor Party as an organisation is a lying machine.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! References to that have stood in the past. What I will also do, Senator Wong, in relation to that matter is reflect upon that. My understanding—and I have in fact witnessed that here in this chamber on many occasions—is references from both sides have been made to collective groups in that manner before. Again, I will reflect, and I will come back to the chamber if I need to. On the same point of order, Senator Wong?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, just to clarify. I appreciate that you are doing us the courtesy of reflecting. I do invite you to consider whether simply calling all of the coalition a 'lying machine' is the sort of debate we want in this chamber, which according to the misleader of the government, as I have called him, is an appropriate way of describing the Labor Party.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My personal view is that those remarks should never be used. However, I have to go on precedent, and I have to go on what the standing orders allow. Again, I will reflect upon that, and I will come back to the chamber if I need to. Attorney-General, you have the call.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are few sights more absurd than Senator Wong on her high horse. Mr President, through you: Senator Urquhart, if you are so sensitive about this matter, why is your party voting against legislation to outlaw corrupting benefits? You are committed to doing that. That is the position that you have taken.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Who said that?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So you are going to support the government's legislation? You are going to support Senator Michaelia Cash's legislation?

Opposition senators interjecting—

I hope you do, but I will be surprised if I ever see it.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Would both sides come to order. If both sides would settle and come to order.