Senate debates

Wednesday, 24 February 2016

Questions without Notice

Building and Construction Industry

2:18 pm

Jo Lindgren (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. Is the minister aware of any instances of bullying, harassment or intimidation in the building and construction sector which should be condemned by all Australians but which, sadly, are not?

2:19 pm

Photo of Michaelia CashMichaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

Unfortunately, yes, I can—and, quite frankly, they are disgusting and should be condemned by all of us. Recently, in Senate estimates, we heard that CFMEU organiser Michael Greenfield allegedly made sexually derogatory comments to a female worker on the Barangaroo site in Sydney. Mr Greenfield allegedly said to the woman, who was to meet with Fair Work building inspectors: 'I hope you brought your knee pads; you're going to be sucking off those dogs all day.'

In another case against the CFMEU, the Federal Court found that union official Mark O'Brien taunted a foreman, saying, 'Hey scabby, gay boy, gay boy, gay boy, scabby.' At the same time—

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Photo of Claire MooreClaire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order.

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Just a moment, Senator Moore. Order, on both sides!

Photo of Claire MooreClaire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

I know the minister is making direct quotes. I understand that, but I am deeply concerned about the language that was used both then and now in this place.

Government senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order!

Government senators interjecting

Order, on my right! Just a moment, Senator Moore. I want to listen to the point of order in silence.

Photo of Claire MooreClaire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

I am concerned about the language that has been used in this place and also yesterday; in the extract from the minister's contribution yesterday it was the same thing. I understand she is making a point, I understand she is doing quotation, but I am deeply concerned by what is taking place in this place.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Which is actually on TV.

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! I am going to take advice from the Clerk first and then I will address further points of order. I will listen to further points on this point of order.

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: the question was about conduct, and the conduct included threats of physical violence and vulgar abuse—sexist abuse and homophobic abuse. It is entirely appropriate for the minister, in responding to that question, to quote the very words that comprised the conduct which was the subject of the question. I point out that, shamefully, notwithstanding the gravity of the sexism and homophobia that was evident, Senator Cameron and Senator Collins were laughing aloud during the answer.

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

That is not part of the point of order.

Honourable senators interjecting

Order on both sides! If you want me to determine a point of order, I need to listen to the points of order. Senator Cameron, on the same point of order.

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: the Attorney-General, of all people, was misleading you and misleading the Senate. He stated that these were facts. These were allegations. Allegations being treated as facts in this place is not correct, and we should not be using this place as a kangaroo court.

Photo of Mathias CormannMathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, on the same point of order: Senator Moore expressed concerns about the language being used. We share that concern. It is highly inappropriate language. But, exercising our freedom of speech in this parliament, in order to make the point to substantiate what a serious concern there is in relation to these matters, the minister needs to quote what actually happened. The minister should be allowed to proceed with her answer.

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! I have listened to the points of order. I will make two comments. Firstly, just because you state something in parliament does not shield you from the fact that the language could be inappropriate. That is the first point I make, and I took that advice from the Clerk. Secondly, I am concerned about the language that is being used, but I am also concerned about the rights of individual senators to be able to express what they want to express in response to an answer. With the indulgence of the Senate, for the remainder of today's question time I would ask that the language be contained to what we would consider to be appropriate language. I am going to reflect on this and report back to the Senate tomorrow in relation to how language will be used in questions in the future.

Honourable senators interjecting

Order! I have made my ruling. Senator Brandis

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, given that you have foreshadowed that you are going to reflect upon the matter, will you be prepared to take submissions on the point, perhaps by writing? This is a very important question: should senators have the right, as Senator Cormann has said, of freedom of speech to quote language—not language of their own, but language in direct speech—to directly make the very point that they seek to make in their answer?

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Yes, I will take submissions from senators if they wish to conduct those submissions to me prior to tomorrow morning. Senator Cash, with those remarks could I ask you to exercise the concerns that I have at the moment.

Opposition senators interjecting

Order on my left! You are asking me to do things and now you are not giving me the chance to actually implement what you are asking. I expect a little bit more respect. Senator Cash.

Photo of Michaelia CashMichaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

I would make the point that, in the second case, I was quoting from a decision of the Federal Court that found that union official Mark O'Brien did taunt a foreman by saying, 'Hey scabby, gay boy, gay boy, gay boy, scabby.' That was a finding of the Federal Court. At the same time—

Photo of Penny WongPenny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order—

Government senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order, on my right! Senator Wong, I heard what Senator Cash just said. She did not use language that I considered to be inappropriate on that occasion. Senator Cash.

Photo of Michaelia CashMichaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, do you know what I find quite disgusting? These instances in this place are findings of the Federal Court. It is disgusting. I think it is disgusting. What is so horrifying is the reaction of those on the other side. Have a look at the questions that you asked this side today. You did not like our responses. They were about what you say is bullying, intimidation and harassment of kids in workplaces. Yet when we stand here on this side and put that same behaviour back to you on the other side, you sit there and make fun and defend your mates. Then Senator Wong will stand up and say, 'But Senator Doug Cameron—'. He is one of the biggest defenders of the CFMEU. For once just listen to what these people say and condemn it. (Time expired)

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order on both sides!

Government senators interjecting

Order on my right!

Honourable senators interjecting

Order! I know tensions are high, I know this is an awkward issue, but let's just exercise some restraint.

Senator Cameron interjecting

Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting

Senator Cameron and Senator Macdonald!

Honourable senators interjecting

Order on both sides!

Senator Cameron interjecting

Photo of Zed SeseljaZed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Cameron used quite unparliamentary language just then in referring to the Attorney-General. I am not going to repeat it but I think he should be asked to withdraw.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, if you feel inclined to withdraw that comment it would assist the chamber.

Government senators interjecting

Order on my right!

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

If it would please the Senate, I withdraw.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron.

2:28 pm

Jo Lindgren (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the minister has raised the matter of Mr Luke Collier, can the minister update the Senate on the outcome of any proceedings involving this particular CFMEU official?

Photo of Michaelia CashMichaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

In relation to bullying, harassment and intimidation in the workplace Mr Luke Collier is an official whose pattern of behaviour demonstrates that he is no stranger to this type of behaviour on building sites. He allegedly spat at an inspector's feet on the Barangaroo site and called her something quite disgraceful. Given your ruling, Mr President, I will not repeat it, but it is certainly something that should be condemned by all of us. At a meeting of workers at the same site Mr Collier announced a building inspector's name and his mobile number and invited workers in the crowd to 'call him and let him know what they thought'. At a recent Senate estimates hearing, it was revealed that Mr Collier is now serving a jail term for assault and entering premises with intent to commit an indictable offence. Those of us on this side of the chamber do not like having to come in here and reveal this type of conduct— (Time expired)

2:30 pm

Jo Lindgren (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Is the minister aware of any comments which would suggest certain union officials have contempt for the law?

Photo of Michaelia CashMichaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | | Hansard source

Unfortunately, yes, I am. In February 2013 the WA secretary of the MUA, Chris Cain, addressed the MUA's militancy conference in Fremantle and boasted 'laws need to be broken, you’re going to get locked up'. In another example, yet again showing complete contempt for the law, senior Victorian CFMEU official Derek Christopher, while addressing a large crowd on a megaphone at a CFMEU blockade, with police officers only metres away, said as follows: 'There's 11,000 coppers in the country and there's 30,000 members of the CFMEU, and greater amongst the other unions when we call on their support. So we're up around the 50,000 mark. So bring it on. We're ready to rumble.' These are just some examples of union members in Australia who have complete, total and utter contempt for the law. None of us are above the law, including officials in the union. (Time expired)