Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance and Deregulation, Senator Wong. I refer the minister to the answer given by Mr David Tune, Secretary of the Department of Finance and Deregulation, that the 'expected sale of assets from the Future Fund was included in the figure for the sale of non-financial assets', in the budget. As the net cashflows from investments in non-financial assets form part of the surplus in statement No. 9 of the budget's financial statements, is the minister able to tell us whether the sale of Future Fund assets will decrease, increase or in any way affect the government's $3.5 billion surplus forecast for 2012-13?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to the reference to statement No. 9, if the senator does want to look at that he will see that there is, as has been the case under governments of both political persuasions, the reporting of cashflows from investments in non-financial assets and the net cashflows from such investments. He would also see that across the forward estimates, including in the 2012-13 year, to which he has referred, the net position of investments in non-financial assets is in fact a negative on the budget. If the assertion is that there is a negative net position but somehow that is not a negative net position because it is helping you in another way, what is being asserted simply does not make sense.

In terms of the quantum I make the point that this was traversed at estimates. There are a range of decisions, hundreds of decisions, that go into a budget bottom line. They include things such as the $22 billion worth of savings that the government took in the budget, which added to the some $83.6 billion, I think, in savings over previous budgets since Labor came to office.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order on relevance. The question is: does the sale of Future Fund assets decrease, increase or in any way affect the government's $3.5 billion surplus forecast?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order, Senator Joyce. The minister is answering the question and has 27 seconds remaining to add to the answer.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not sure how much more relevant I can be. I have taken the senator through the budget papers. I have tried to explain it to him courteously. But the fact is that he is actually not interested in the answer, just like he has never, as part of the coalition's economic team previously, been interested in putting together costings which add up.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister please advise the Senate of the current value of the Commonwealth holding in the Future Fund?

Senator Conroy interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Wait a minute, Senator Joyce. I missed part of the question.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not surprising, because Senator Conroy is such a nuisance.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Joyce, there is no need to comment. I am just asking that you be heard in silence.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I will start again. Can the minister please advise the Senate of the current value of the Commonwealth holding in the Future Fund? That is not an assertion; we are looking for a statement of fact. What is the quantity of the government's current contribution to the Future Fund, since it was elected in 2007? That is not an assertion; we are also looking for a fact.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are a number of questions there. Firstly, in relation to the total assets held by the fund, it is in excess of $70 billion as at the last annual report.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is $75 billion.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you knew the answer, why did you ask the question? These figures are published annually, as the senator would be aware. I will take on notice the precise total cumulative change over the last number of years. I would make the point that, like most other funds, there was a global financial crisis, so obviously that would have been reflected in the returns on investment. In relation to the amount held in— (Time expired)

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The answers were '$75 billion' and 'zero,' but the minister is really struggling with this.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ask a question, Senator Joyce. That is all I am after.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer to the comments from the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, in 2005: 'We can't have the Future Fund being plundered by the National Party. It has to be locked in a box.' Minister, does it remain the government's policy to keep the Future Fund locked in a box, or have you succumbed to the temp­tations of Ron Boswell? Are you basically robbing Peter Costello to pay Penny?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think one thing we have established in this question time is that, clearly, Senator Cormann and Senator Joyce do not talk to each other, because I answered almost the entirety of that question in response to the first question from Senator Cormann. I have also put out a press release. Clearly, Senator Joyce does not like reading and he does not like facts to get in the way of a good story. He is wrong. We have made clear that we are not raiding the Future Fund, we are not withdrawing funds from the Future Fund and we have no intention of doing so. He should stop coming in here and making false assertions, because false assertions are not a substitute for political debate and they are certainly not a substitute for sensible economic policy. And let me tell you that, when it comes to sensible economic policy, that end of the chamber is a complete wasteland.