Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Digital Productivity (Senator Conroy) to question without notice asked by the opposition today, relating to the National Broadband Network.

I note that the opposition were the only people asking Senator Conroy any questions today. We asked Senator Conroy three very clear, focused questions relating to the NBN business plan. On the other side of the chamber, today was the ‘ABC question time’, the ‘anyone but Conroy question time’. We saw minister after minister after minister asked questions about the NBN but not one of those questions was directed towards the actual Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy. In their desperation to try to build some sort of case to support their NBN, to try and justify why they are keeping its business plan secret from the Australian people, the government are turning to every other minister now because they know that Minister Conroy is not able to sustain the argument in this place, he is not able to actually build the case in the public arena, as to why this is $43 billion well spent, as to why this money should be tipped into this network without any cost-benefit analysis and without this parliament having the right, before voting on this critical legislation, to actually see the business plan that has been delivered to the government.

We are seeing a desperate government applying ever more desperate excuses for why they are covering their tracks on the NBN business plan. We know that the government have the document; we know that they got the 400-page document two weeks ago. The problem is that they keep tripping themselves up on their own stories. Back at Senate estimates Senator Conroy suggested that the document would never be released. But then two weeks ago when he received it, he said it would be released. And then last week the Prime Minister, rather unhelpfully for Senator Conroy, put a time line on it and said it would be released in December. Since then Senator Conroy has attempted to rewrite it, saying cabinet needs to ‘put a fine toothcomb through it’. Well, we all know what the fine toothcomb of this government looks like; it leaves nits and all sorts of un-niceties behind when it has been through any type of program, as we have seen quite clearly with home insulation, Green Loans, pink batts, Building the Education Revolution—you name it, their fine toothcomb is not worth its weight in anything.

So we had a commitment that the NBN business plan would be released after cabinet had considered it. But then, because that commitment did not wash, last Friday the minister quietly dropped a letter from the NBN Co. CEO, Mr Quigley, to a couple of the newspapers. In that letter, Mr Quigley tried to mount a different argument, about the ‘commercially sensitive aspects’ of the NBN. Then, the minister attempted to offer briefings on the detail of the NBN to the crossbench senators in exchange for signing up to a confidentiality pact—a tightly drafted, legally drawn up confidentiality document. Initially, that pact was to require the crossbenchers to sew their lips together on the NBN for seven years. When that did not work, they were going to have to be quiet for three years. When that did not work, it was changed to two weeks. The crossbenchers were going to be gagged for some time, as long as the government could get its legislation considered.

Thankfully, this was exposed. The exposure of this deal points to the fact that the government and NBN Co. have already gone over this business plan. They have already worked out just what the confidential aspects are. They have already established just what is commercially sensitive. They already know what will and will not be released. The only thing they are doing is buying time. They are stalling to try to get their legislation through this parliament this week without revealing the underpinning assumptions—the take-up rate, prices et cetera—the business case or any other detail of the NBN.

It is just not good enough. We saw again today Senator Conroy desperately inventing new phrases and words to try to weave his way around the government’s failure to give to the parliament the information it requires to do the job that every legislator in this place should be able to do—to consider legislation in a fully informed way. This is a government that seems determined to hide the facts. Senator Conroy is a minister who clearly has lost the confidence of his own side, who have stopped asking him questions on his own portfolio. We should see this document as soon as possible.

Trish Crossin (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise in response to the coalition’s take note motion. I am disappointed, though, Senator Birmingham, that you did not rise to take note of Senator Wong’s answer to Senator Cash’s question—how disappointing. Of course, I can take note of Senator Wong’s answer to Michaelia Cash’s question.

Alan Ferguson (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, but you cannot, Senator Crossin.

Trish Crossin (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What a shame; it is a pity—

Alan Ferguson (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Crossin, the motion that was moved was to take note of the answers given by Senator Conroy. You will confine your remarks to answers given by Senator Conroy.

Trish Crossin (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a pity, I observe, that the motion moved by Senator Birmingham did not relate to all of the answers from our senators today. There were some answers that the opposition would not want to talk about.

One thing that this side of the chamber is absolutely convinced of is that Senator Conroy is doing an outstanding job in relation to the National Broadband Network. It is a policy that we released during the election and that is extremely popular around the country. When I look at the contribution from the other side, the coalition, it is really about: ‘It wasn’t our idea—we didn’t think of it first—so we’re going to do everything we can possibly do to undermine it and wreck it.’ We have seen the comments from Senator Barnaby Joyce, blatantly admitting that his role was to pull the rug out from under this as a way of bringing the government down. Everywhere you turn, you see an opposition who simply cannot accept that this is one of the most popular policy positions that a government has ever taken in this country.

It is widely accepted in the community that our current broadband services are deficient—we are not up with the rest or the best of the world—that they require significant improvement. We have a state-of-the-art policy to be rolled out, and the other side, quite frankly, just do not like it because they did not think of it first, it was not their idea, they are not innovative or creative enough to come up with this sort of solution. This solution is going to put Australia into the next century, and fast, as we get better access to broadband than we have ever had in this country.

We know that the NBN is a critical piece of infrastructure. It is an expensive piece of infrastructure. It will take a number of years to bed down. But we also know that in Tasmania it is hugely popular. It is successful. The Casuarina area in the Northern Territory is one of the next areas that will be rolled out, and people up there are incredibly excited about this. They are tired of having to rely on dial-up access. They want fast broadband. Industries in the Northern Territory, as we heard Senator Carr say today, are relying on this to be innovative and creative—to be world best and world first.

We have all of these excuses coming out of the opposition. We have Malcolm Turnbull’s suggestion to set up a joint select committee, and, of course, ‘Send it all off to the Productivity Commission.’ None of this is washing out there. None of this is having any effect on people who are wildly excited about this idea and just want the government to get on with it, without the opposition putting roadblocks in the way. And now we have the business plan suggestion.

We have heard Senator Conroy’s explanation: the ACCC is providing some comments to the government about the business plan, cabinet will re-look at those comments and in due course those areas of the business plan that can be released—that are not commercially sensitive and will not damage the business relationship that undermines the NBN—will be made public. The Prime Minister has given that commitment. But for some reason the opposition think that the government can bypass all of the legitimate channels, the checks and balances, and release any document they have a request for, instantly and publicly. This is just to satisfy their political ineptitude—at the end of the day, they did not think of this policy. They did not come up with this creative idea. This is the opposition’s third attempt to undermine the work this government is doing, after having been in government for 12 years—the people opposite me sat in government for 12 years and had 17 plans and did not achieve any of this at all. The best they could do was to sell of Telstra, without the necessary checks and balances in place. (Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If ever we needed further evidence that the government is just waving whilst they are drowning under their inordinate hopelessness, we have just heard it from Senator Crossin, who for the first minute of her contribution to this debate wanted to talk about everything else—until she was most appropriately pulled up by you, Mr Deputy President. Senator Crossin wanted to divert attention from the huge failings of this government and the failings of Senator Conroy; she did not want his National Broadband Network being discussed in this chamber appropriately. It is outrageous.

Let me cast my mind back. The NBN has come about because of an earlier failing. The government in its previous incarnation under Mr Rudd, who they betrayed so mercilessly, did not receive the appropriate number of proper tenders for their previous broadband network. So what did Senator Conroy do? Senator Conroy could not get an audience with his holiness Kevin Rudd so he had to jump on a plane and fly for hours and hours to cook up a $43 billion taxpayer spend on a national broadband network. There was no business plan; there was no case made; there was no cost-benefit analysis. There still has been no cost-benefit analysis. Apparently a business plan has been done, but only after the objectives and policy had been released and announced. That does not mean that the plan will be good, worthwhile or in the public interest. It is not going to stack up under the cost-benefit analysis test. We know that because the government will not have it.

In my previous role in the financial markets I came across an old phrase: ‘When the tide goes out you can always tell who has been swimming naked.’ Let me tell you: the tide is going out on this NBN proposal and on Minister Conroy. The sight is not a pretty one, because Senator Conroy is trying to hide his inadequacies with a range of obfuscations, misleading statements and all sorts of excuses about why he will not provide the details. Last week, as the tide was going out on Senator Conroy he said, ‘I want cabinet to consider the business plan before I release it next week.’ Today he said that he is not in the process of releasing cabinet agendas and discussions. He has come up with yet another excuse not to release the business plan: Mr Quigley.

One might excuse each of these things if they could be taken in isolation. One could say, ‘Well, there’s a plausibility about this,’ but when the excuses are taken cumulatively and when you look at the track record of this government—including that minister and other ministers—you see that something is fishy. There are dead fish on the ocean floor where the tide has disappeared and Senator Conroy is standing exposed with his awful inadequacies for everyone to see.

Let us be very clear about this. There is a $43 billion spend involved in a massive infrastructure project but this government are not able to tell us what the benefits will be. They are not able to ascertain what the permanent savings will be. I asked Senator Conroy about that last week; he could not give us a list. It is of such sensitivity that the government wants to keep talking in general terms about the national broadband network. People do want fast broadband—there is no doubt about that; the coalition had an excellent plan to provide it at a reasonable cost—but those on the other side of the chamber will not ask Senator Conroy about the detail. Senator Crossin wanted to talk about anything but Senator Conroy’s lacklustre contribution. People have been asking other ministers—like Minister Sherry, Minister Wong and Minister Carr—about the national broadband network.

Let us talk about innovation, which Senator Crossin briefly referred to. Innovation, in the eyes of this government, is extraordinary; it is where you give $30 million to a car manufacturer to build a car they were already going to build and which they were only going to sell a few thousand of—the Hybrid Camry, for example. The minister responsible for that, I remember, had a policy of sending text messages up into outer space. I wonder how that has gone? That has gone the way of Kevin Rudd, I guess.

We have $43 billion worth of taxpayer money that has been funnelled into a program that we do not have much detail about. And this government are hiding away from that. If they have nothing to hide, if it all stacks up, they should release it and open it to the full scrutiny of the parliament. They should let people gaze upon it and make their judgments at will—let them defend it in the public arena rather than just through rhetoric and insinuation and trying to intimidate people into it. There are many questions that need to be answered and at the very least Senator Conroy should stand accountable for them.

Steve Hutchins (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is always pleasurable follow Senator Bernardi because it is interesting to listen to him. He actually tends to believe what he says; he is not going on some debating point that he has been given 10 minutes before he speaks. A lot of the coalition senators are given a few little debating points to go on. They gesticulate a lot and confect a little indignation—but not Senator Bernardi; Senator Bernardi firmly believes it. I do not say that Senator Bernardi is correct—in fact, I would question a number of the conclusions that he has come to today—but he is one of the few on that side who show some passion on some of the issues that have been debated in this Senate over the past year or so. He is not like some of the actors and actresses that we have seen parade before us time and time again.

This government is about the big picture. There are a number of areas where we are in stark contrast with the coalition. This is not only on the NBN; it is on infrastructure spending and on the mineral resources rent tax—three big differences of ideological opinion between this side of the chamber and that side. That is a good thing for Australian politics. This is not Tweedledum and Tweedledee; we do not believe what they believe and vice versa.

As has been outlined today in the answers to questions—not only by the minister responsible, Senator Conroy, but by other ministers as well: Wong, Carr, Sherry—there are benefits of going down this particular track. Each minister outlined what it is going to mean for the economy of this country. Each minister outlined what it will mean for the productivity of this country and what benefits there will be for this country.

Prior to the 2007 election, in what I think was the seat of Calare a public meeting was held with the then shadow minister, Senator Conroy, our Labor candidate, Bob Debus, and me. We held it in the middle of winter in Bathurst. If anybody has been out in the central west of New South Wales in winter, it is very, very cold—probably like any part of country and regional Australia. On this night we wanted to discuss our communications policy, our NBN plan. To my amazement, on that freezing cold night we had 400 people turn up at seven o’clock. It was so cold that we had to get the plane out very quickly because the ice was starting to make us think that we would not be able to leave. Four hundred people attended that meeting and 400 people from that district wanted to know how quickly they could get access to the internet. And why did they want to know that? They were not young men and women who seemed to be addicted to Twitter or Facebook. These were business men and women from small business through to the medical areas that wanted to know what the incoming Labor government would do to make them more efficient, more productive, more connected to their customer base and more connected to consumers. Four hundred people turned up and they wanted us to have this plan go ahead—not to have the delays that are being advocated by the coalition. Those men and women in that one country town in western New South Wales wanted us to go ahead with our plan. We have explained it up hill and down dale.

The fact is that the coalition does not like it. I cannot help that. We have been upfront everywhere we can, except for commercial-in-confidence matters. We have said what we are going to do. Everybody knows what we are going to do, because we have the big picture, unlike what the coalition has been consumed with for most of its political history. If it has a big plan, if it has a big picture—whether it is standard railway gauges or the Snowy Mountains scheme—where is the coalition? It is always looking for the small picture. It does not have the big picture. It does not have the broad canvas for the Australian nation.

Scott Ryan (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Small Business and Fair Competition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In the previous contribution on the motion to take note of answers given at question time, Senator Hutchins tried to talk about the government having a big picture. The only big picture this government has is the big picture of the debt it is going to bequeath future Australians. The coalition is quite proud to stand between this government and the reckless abuse of taxpayer funds of present and future Australians. This government has come up with excuse after excuse to hide from scrutiny. I remember when a few billion dollars was a lot of money and would have been subjected to rigorous public analysis and debate, but this government tries to do everything it can to hide $43 billion of public funds from any meaningful debate in the community or in this place. It does not want a detailed analysis undertaken of the costs and the benefits of this reckless and outrageous project. It shows that, as this government flounders around, having lost its way, it is in desperate need of a purpose. It thinks it has found that purpose in the NBN. But, while this government has lost its way and is looking for a map, a map is no use unless you know where you want to go. This government does not know where it wants to take Australia and it has grasped the National Broadband Network as an excuse for an agenda because it does not have a bigger plan for Australia.

Let us consider the ludicrous situation this government currently finds itself in. It said it would not release the business plan and then it said it would. But it will only release the business plan in a redacted form after this parliament has voted on legislation that will commence the spending of $43 billion of taxpayers’ money and drastically increase Australia’s debt. It says there will be no Productivity Commission cost-benefit analysis. We undertake them for much smaller programs. It has been undertaken for the car industry, it has been undertaken for the textile, clothing and footwear industry and it has been undertaken on private and public health systems. The Productivity Commission undertakes detailed studies on a range of sectors of the Australian economy. What do we have today after the secret deal with the Greens? We have a government that says, ‘We won’t have a Productivity Commission cost-benefit analysis to test whether or not this is a worthwhile spend of taxpayers funds, but we will have one after we have built it, after we have spent the money, to determine whether it should be privatised.’ So the commitment from this government to ensure that the National Broadband Network would not remain in government hands has now been thrown out the window in yet another compromise with the Greens, who are running this government’s agenda.

Senator Conroy is playing Twister, for those of you who remember the game. The contortions of the government’s inconsistent positions are apparent as they seem to flick the Twister wheel on a daily basis in an attempt to stall, obfuscate and delay scrutiny in the vain hope that this parliament will pass the legislation that they desire. Let us consider the details. While we cannot have the cost-benefit analysis of the $43 billion government owned entity, the government backflip on the commitment to ensure that the National Broadband Network does not remain in government hands. We are supposed to believe that the government owned monopoly—which, in reality, will now never be privatised—will improve customer service and access. The truth is that Australians, particularly regional Australians, remember the record of government owned businesses and they know this is not something to aspire to. Just like the telecom of old, the National Broadband Network remaining in government hands will lead to union feather-bedding, higher costs for consumers, poor service and delays and massive losses for taxpayers.

Another farcical element of this government’s plan is the decommissioning and tearing up of functioning telecommunications networks in Australia: the copper network and the HFC network. There is no justification whatever to decommission those other than to force people onto the government monopoly provider—that is, the NBN. It embeds cross-subsidies that every Australian consumer will pay and they will not know the cost of this. The government expects us to believe that costs will not go up as people are forced onto the National Broadband Network, as the government legislation forces the decommissioning of fully depreciated HFC and copper networks—even though they are suitable for a great number of Australians. The Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy today in answer to questions asked of him by the opposition—rather than, as we have noted, by the government—said that the business plan is dependent upon reducing costs to consumers. Senator Conroy and the Gillard government: release it to the Senate today so that this Senate can have a fully informed debate on the costs that you are imposing on future taxpayers.

Question agreed to.