I thank the minister for that frank response and for the acknowledgement that the emails did exist. I repeat the point that I think the minister was misled by the department and didn't do it intentionally. I will ask the minister to take on notice that it's been confirmed, as you mentioned, that DVA has employed six separate firms since 2008 to fight Mr Rollins' claim. Could you have the department provide a specific breakdown of how much each of those firms were paid, rather than the global amount that they've come up with? Thank you.