Sue Lines (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Hansard source

I rise to speak about why Labor is opposed to the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Cashless Debit Card) Bill 2017, which we are currently debating. I do so from a position of listening to some of the speeches from government senators. I acknowledge their good intent in wanting to find a solution to what are indeed complex problems that exist in many parts of Australia. I think where that logic fails is to think that the solution is in a single cashless debit card, but I do acknowledge the heartfelt contributions of many government senators to the debate so far.

I participated in the cashless debit card inquiry. I was particularly keen to participate in the Kalgoorlie hearings because, for quite some time, like you, Mr Acting Deputy President Sterle, I've been concerned about what's been happening in Kalgoorlie. I note that last year you and I held a public meeting in Kalgoorlie. Many people came along to that meeting, and you and I heard some shocking reports, in particular about the level of racism in that town, which is evident and was certainly reported to us at that open public forum that we held. I do just want to start with that.

Of course, the intention with this card is not just for it to cover Kalgoorlie but to cover the greater Goldfields area. We saw last year the shocking death of young Elijah, a young First Australian boy who was run down by a car, the absolute tragedy that has created and, on the face of it, the very poor sentencing that the perpetrator of that crime received. Now there is further concern in the town because that person will be out on bail fairly soon. So that created a lot of protests in the town. And there is definitely—in Kalgoorlie particularly—a real pervasive element of racism. We saw on Australia Day the emergence of the Nazi flag being carried around at parties. We heard at the inquiry that there are Facebook pages that are dedicated to people who like to make derogatory remarks directed at First Australians and, again, you and I, when we held that open forum, heard about those Facebook pages which circulate in Kalgoorlie. So I say right here and right now that there are much greater problems in the Goldfields region, particularly in Kalgoorlie.

There are solutions to those problems, and they require state, federal and local governments to sit down with First Australians and to listen to the sorts of responses that they want to put in place. Certainly Mr Trevor Donaldson has been a high-profile first nations advocate in the Goldfields area. He's part of the Goldfields Land and Sea Council. He says what they need there is something for youth to do. We know that in country towns there is usually a swimming pool but there is often not much else, and they were seeking the establishment of a youth centre, for which they called upon the federal minister to give them the funds. They've been calling for that for quite some time, and it has fallen on deaf ears, although I think there has been some movement on that recently. But there is a solution where Mr Donaldson is saying, 'Let's divert these kids.'

We heard from a young first nations woman who works with the chamber in Kalgoorlie that she is finding it very hard to get young first nations people the opportunity to work in Kalgoorlie because of the racism. That the evidence she gave to the committee. We've had two relevant inquiries up there recently into both the CDP and the cashless debit card. She told us that the issue of racism often prevents her from being able to place young first nation people into employment. There are much greater issues that the cashless debit card is not going to address. Ironically, as I speak, the Closing the gap report is being delivered by our Prime Minister. Whilst I haven't had a good opportunity to hear everything the Prime Minister has said about that report, one of the things he has said is he wants First Australians to be able to participate equally. Imposing the cashless debit card in communities where the population is predominantly First Australian is anything but equal participation. I call the Prime Minister out on that.

Senator Patrick Dodson has said today on radio that the Closing the Gap results are not a game between the Liberal and Labor parties. That's true: they are not a game. It is about, as Senator Patrick Dodson says, the future of first nation people in Australia and their quality of life. I was very pleased last week to attend the 10-year review of the Closing the Gap strategy and its recommendations. June Oscar gave a powerful speech about what needs to be done. I quote from the review:

The close the gap approach and the Close the Gap Statement of Intent is founded on an understanding that population health outcomes are fundamentally the result of underlying structural factors, such as social determinants, institutional racism, the quality of housing, and access to appropriate primary health care. If governments want to improve and sustain the health of any population over time, these elements must be addressed.

When we are hearing from amazing women like June Oscar about the fundamentals of what needs to be done to address the gap, why is the government so intent upon pursuing a card which will further disadvantage people, that further discriminates, that will not address those issues that June Oscar and others say are needed to improve the wellbeing of our first nation people and of other Australians who live below the poverty line and are simply not able to make ends meet? The cashless debit card is not the response.

I know that as I speak there are some people from Kalgoorlie are in the building, lobbying the crossbenchers about the need to support the cashless debit card, but there is another story, and it is time that we stood back and listened to and acted upon what first nation people and others in this country believe is the way forward. We have evidence from Kununurra and Ceduna to say that the cashless debit card doesn't work. It may work for some people. There is no question that in Kalgoorlie we heard evidence for and against the cashless debit card. Thankfully, that evidence came from First Australians who would, if this legislation were passed, have the cashless debit card imposed upon them. They were conflicted about it. I think there should be options in the future for people who want to volunteer to be able to opt in. I wouldn't stand in their way, but this is not what's being presented with this legislation. It is a catch-all process that robs people of dignity, respect and the ability to make decisions about their own lives.

My key factor in attending the inquiry we had into the cashless debit card was to try and convince myself that there had been real consultation. If there was real consultation, if individuals and community representatives were saying very clearly, 'This is the response we want', and the federal government and, indeed, the opposition were standing in their way, we deserved to be condemned. But what the Kalgoorlie hearing bore out very, very clearly was that there had not been consultation with people who would be affected by the card. No amount of glossing up the inquiry, even for those most passionate supporters of the cashless debit card—you cannot claim that there has been consultation unless you think that consultation stops at a particular rung of society and doesn't continue on.

We had all of the councils come and give evidence about why they wanted the cashless debit card. What is interesting about that, in my view, is that the federal government has used those councils as a bit of a patsy. I can't comment on what councils do in other states and territories. But what I can comment on in a generalised way is what councils provide in Western Australia, and it's not social services. Councils in Western Australia have the traditional role of doing roads, big infrastructure, water in some remote communities and so on, but not the delivery of social services. But who did the government consult with in Kalgoorlie? It seems to me it largely consulted with the local councils—councils who are not delivering social services and councils who, if this card is imposed on the Goldfields community, will have nothing to do with the implementation of the card. So that would surely be the first alarm bell that must ring: why consult with a group of elected representatives who won't actually have anything to do with the delivery of the card?

I thought maybe the councils then went about consulting with residents, with people who would be affected by the card. So my questioning focused very much on what councils had done beyond sitting in a room and hearing from government bureaucrats and ministers about the so-called benefits of the debit card. We heard evidence from the mayor of Kalgoorlie, Mr John Bowler. He told us—and this is on the transcript for everyone to see; it's public information—that there had been no community consultation in Kalgoorlie before the council decided to support the card. When I questioned him on that, he told the committee that he'd heard Geraldton hadn't agreed to it, so he wrote to the minister at the time, Mr Tudge, and the local member, Mr Wilson, and told them he wanted the city to be in the next trial. This was the mayor of Kalgoorlie operating in a completely independent way—on a bit of a whim, if you like—to ask for the card to come to Kalgoorlie.

When I asked the councils what level of consultation they had done, some of them were quite insulted and felt that they, as elected representatives, had the right to make that decision on behalf of the local residents without speaking to them—which of course they do not. I put it to them that if, as an elected member, I did that I'd soon find myself voted out of office because, as elected representatives, we have an obligation to consult. And yet none of those councils could show us any level of consultation with residents who would be affected by this card. I found it completely appalling that they were prepared to front up to a Senate inquiry and tell us why they wanted the card, but had not actually consulted with anyone.

I'm not going to gloss over the issues in the Goldfields. There are certainly issues in the Goldfields. I started my contribution today talking about the inherent racism in Kalgoorlie and the sad and shocking death of young Elijah last year. There are issues in the Goldfields, as there are across many regions in Western Australia and, indeed, Australia. But the cashless debit card is not the solution to those issues.

We had the Aboriginal Health Council of WA. You would think that the federal government would have consulted with them, as they are an Aboriginal Health Council, but they didn't. Certainly they told us in evidence that what they saw in Kalgoorlie was:

… the continuing harm and trauma that exists today that the approach has comprehensively failed—

so the approach that the government has used to date has failed—

and it must stop if we are serious about improving outcomes in the community.

Those sorts of comments were echoed last week when we heard the Close the gap 10-year report from people like June Oscar, Rod Little and others. Ms Nelson-Cox went on to say that the card:

… has been designed by non-Aboriginal people despite being introduced in regions with high Aboriginal populations.

We heard from Linden Brownley, who since the CDC inquiry in Kalgoorlie has been elected to the council. He said:

… there is this feeling that we are being pushed back into what was described as 'the ration days'. After coming through the policies of self-determination and being able to take control of our own destiny and be able to shape and mould our own future, there is a perception out there that we are going backwards.

Remember I stated earlier that the Prime Minister in his response to Close the gap today has talked about the need for equal representation in our society, equal participation. Well, it isn't going to come through the use of this card.

We heard from Save the Children in Kununurra, who talked about their programs and why they worked in Kununurra. I'm a great advocate of Save the Children. I see the work they do in Western Australia, particularly in Kununurra. We heard about the programs that they put in place, which are about talking, discussing and listening to what elders want and which are led by First Australians. That's where they are seeing some difference. They told us that kids are going hungry now in Kununurra and that's an effect of both the CDC and the CDP on those populations. We heard that from police as well. It's not the sort of response that should be going on.

Last week we heard from the most amazing young woman—Banok Rind, who is a proud Yamatji-Badimia woman. She is a 20-year-old training to be a nurse. She implored the Prime Minister, 'Sit down and yarn with us.' She asked us why is it that two-year-olds in her community are walking around with hearing aids? I want to be able to answer that question. Certainly that is not because of the ability to equally participate in our society. It's about ongoing trauma and health issues which remain unaddressed.

She also put a positive spin. She is from the Geraldton area. For those people not familiar with Yamatji country, it is Geraldton. She talked about the Geraldton Regional Aboriginal Medical Service. Most Western Australians with any kind of social conscience would know that GRAMS, an Aboriginal controlled and led medical service, does amazing work. That was what Ms Rind said was needed, not a cashless debit card—and they are my words, not hers. Certainly she was talking about a comprehensive process, a process that involves consultation and a process that involves putting first nations peoples' views first.

The week before we came back to parliament I was fortunate to attend a cashless debit card conference that the University of Melbourne sponsored. There were two participants there: a woman from Ceduna and a woman from the Kununurra region in Western Australia. They talked about how the card has changed their lives, not for the better. In fact, their lives have become much worse. Neither of those women drink or gamble. One of them has worked most of her life and has now got a period of unemployment. They talked about the card not working, they talked about not being able to buy second-hand goods anymore, they talked about not having a lot of cash in their pockets and they talked about the detrimental effects of that card on their families. Those ordinary women are advocating, very strongly, that the cashless debit card is not making this so-called positive difference in their communities. It's certainly not the response in the Goldfields. There are issues in the Goldfields. They need an across-the-board response, but mostly they need to be led by first nations people. That's why Labor won't be supporting this legislation.