The cacophony on the other side, I suspect, is because of the sensitivity from former union leaders like Senator Bilyk. I do not know if Senator Bilyk sold out workers when she was negotiating. I have no evidence, one way or another. We know that Mr Shorten and the SDA did. Senator Bilyk may have been one of the good union leaders who did not sell workers down the river. I make no comment.

Senator Bilyk interjecting—

I do not know, Senator Bilyk. You can answer for yourself but when it comes to—

Senator Bilyk interjecting—

They are very sensitive.