As I was saying, a range of qualifications are received and, of course, there are on-the-job training elements to those qualifications. So I will check exactly what the on-the-job training elements are and the number of hours that are required to meet them, and I will happily provide that to the Senate—as I said, Senator Cameron, in the first 10 seconds of my answer. But all of this is about trying to trial new ways to lift apprenticeship numbers, which went into free fall thanks to the policy actions of the Gillard government in 2012. (Time expired)

Honourable senators interjecting —