First of all, Senator Ludlam, you used the expression 'indiscriminate'. We are not talking about indiscriminate access to metadata at all. Nevertheless, Senator Ludlam, let me give you two instances. First of all, there is the advice of the former Director-General of Security, Mr David Irvine, who, in one of the last press conferences he conducted before his retirement last September, described these measures as 'absolutely crucial'.