I take Senator Siewert’s intervention. I had not realised that Senator Ludlam and Senator Kroger were leaders of their respective parties. There is a slight difference with a couple of senators having a bit of a chat at the back of the chamber. I am surprised they are not listening intently to what I am saying but there is nothing to stop them having a bit of a chat. It is quite different when you have the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Evans, and the Leader of the Greens—well, the leader at the moment; I know Senator Hanson-Young is making a lot of strides—