Mr Deputy President, on the point of order: firstly, it is the custom that debates do range widely on these questions in take note debates. Secondly, the argument put is an attack on the proposition put initially by Senator Macdonald and therefore relevance has been established. I understand there may be some sensitivity but, frankly, the questions raised in relation to competence of a minister can be answered in this debate by questioning, alternatively, the competence of a shadow minister.