My question is to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence. In relation to Victoria Barracks in Sydney, the minister has said:

It is not my aim to see defence manage the oldest wine cellar in Australia.

Former chief of defence force and governor-general Sir Peter Cosgrove, one of our greatest living Australians, has described that as 'the most stupid thing I've ever heard'. Minister—and you know I've got great respect for you, but why do you think you know more about defence heritage than a man who has served this country valiantly in uniform for 40 years?

I thank the member for his question. What was clear, when we came to government, was that we had, as a nation, a significant defence estate, much of which we did not use, and we were spending not hundreds of thousands of dollars in maintaining it but hundreds of millions. We undertook an independent audit of the entire defence estate to properly understand what Defence needed and what it didn't so that we could make sure the defence estate properly grounded the work of the Australian Defence Force. I'd invite the member to read what those independent auditors said not just about Victoria Barracks, Sydney, but about the management of the defence estate in total, because it's actually damning of successive governments in terms of facing up to the fact that the defence estate has not been maintained in terms of what is needed for our future defence.

The member for Riverina, on a point of order?

On relevance—the question was specifically about Victoria Barracks and Sir Peter Cosgrove's comments in relation to the minister's comments.

Yes, the minister was asked a fairly direct question about a topic that he is giving information to the House about. Perhaps he may want to return to the question he was asked, and he's spoken about Victoria Barracks, but the question was sort of asking for an opinion as well, so it's a fairly broad question. I think everyone heard the question, so I'm going to be lenient with the minister, because the question was so broad in asking a minister for an opinion. It's very difficult for me to allow that question to be in the standing orders, but we always find a way to get there. The minister can continue, but he should just make sure that, if he's giving information to the House, he's being directly relevant to the comment and also to the issue that he was asked about.

The estate audit specifically discussed Victoria Barracks, Sydney, and it made it clear that, whatever else, Victoria Barracks, Sydney, is not fundamental to the defence of the country and that what we face, in respect of Victoria Barracks, Sydney, specifically, is a bill of $200 million over the next decade to secure it as a defence site—an amount that would not need to be spent if it were not a defence site. It's on that basis that we've taken the decision that we have taken, particularly given that Defence Plaza Sydney, established by the former coalition government and a decent decision, which is a kilometre away, right now, sits 60 per cent empty. It's got offices in there, and the fundamental function of what happens at Victoria Barracks Sydney is office work. Given the strategic landscape we face, we simply cannot afford to be wasting money—and that's what we're doing—in this way. We actually need to look at how we best use defence money for defence capability.

I take the interjection in respect of defence history. It is really important, and I understand the importance of that history to the Australian Army. To be clear, most members of the Australian Army have never been to Victoria Barracks Sydney, nor is Victoria Barracks Sydney open to most members of the Australian Army. What we are talking about doing now is opening it to the entire nation. The history of the Australian Army does not just belong to it; it belongs to the Australian people, and we will ensure every one of these buildings is absolutely protected and returned to the nation, returned to Sydneysiders, so that Australians and members of the Australian Army can properly respect Australian Army history. (Time expired)