Zoe Daniel (Goldstein, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. Goldstein has 17,000 small businesses, and the government's industrial relations bill captures businesses with a head count of just 15-plus. This would see thousands of small businesses across the country potentially drawn into multi-employer bargaining. Overall, I have supported the bill; however, does the government accept that the numbers should be raised to a higher number of full-time equivalent staff to acknowledge the concerns of our small businesses?

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're going to clean up Julia's mess?

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will cease interjecting every time a minister starts answering a question.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Goldstein for the question. I acknowledge the member, for different parts of this bill—particularly on the gender equity parts of the bill—has been an advocate for those sections long before she became a member in this place, and, since becoming a member, this is the first time in question time that the member has raised it with me. It's been raised both on the floor of the House and privately, and in writing to me as well, so I respect the fierce advocacy of this issue of how the small-business carve-out is done.

I'll say a few things in response. First of all, and it goes to some of the issues that have been raised by the opposition today as well, the expectation with respect to small business is overwhelmingly it will be the cooperative stream that's used. With the cooperative stream, it's very much an opt in; there's no industrial action. Effectively, model enterprise agreements are made available that small businesses and their staff can voluntarily opt into. That involves no fees and no consultants, and we expect overwhelmingly that would be the way that small business would engage with these reforms. With respect to the single-interest stream, the small business carve-out that is there at the moment is simply the definition that is already elsewhere in the act for small business—a definition which those opposite did not seek to change in their entire time in office.

I respect the argument that the member for Goldstein and other members of the crossbench have made where they've said that, particularly for multi-employer bargaining, they would like to see this go as a broader exclusion. That's been raised not only by the member for Goldstein but by a number of members of the crossbench. This is one of the issues where consultation and negotiation is happening with the Senate crossbench. As I said when we were in the in-detail stage—

Peter Dutton (Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You haven't even passed the bill.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Leader of the Opposition will cease interjecting. Member for Wannon!

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said when we were dealing with the in-detail stage—so this might be new for those who haven't been paying attention but it is not new for those who have—there has always been an expectation that when the bill hit the Senate that definition would probably be something—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for La Trobe and the member for Deakin will cease interjecting.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

that would be part of those negotiations. In any broadening of the definition, what I want to be mindful of—and I've said this before—is that occupations such as early childhood educators, who we definitely want to make sure do get the benefit of multi-employer bargaining, may start in the supported stream but, effectively, if you look at businesses like, for example, the Victorian childcare centres or early childhood education centres that have already engaged in this, they're roughly 16 per cent above the award and they would need a pathway to be able to continue to negotiate. They'd only be able to do that single-enterprise stream, and I want to make sure that any expanded definition doesn't carve them out.