A plug—there you go. Now you're seeing more of them and they're also illegal. We could get some common sense about this, maybe put this one through the PBO. That'd be a good one. Put this one through the PBO and ask this very simple question: if we reduce the price of legal cigarettes by reducing the excise, will we sell more legal cigarettes? It shouldn't take the PBO too long to get to an answer. Then ask this: if the government sells more legal cigarettes, will the government get more excise revenue? And that shouldn't take the PBO too long to work out either. I think they are two very quick questions. They will be able to work out that you're vastly better off if you reduce the price of a product if you are desirous of the idea of wanting to sell more of them.

Ultimately, how do we actually stop people smoking cigarettes? There's no argument that that would be great. Well, the first thing is you can't just order people to stop, and you can't just make it so that you build it on a financial rock, because all people do is go to the illegal product. You have to continue to do it with an education campaign, continue to do it with good role models, continue to do it with a process of basically just appealing to their common sense of trying to look after their own body and their own health. I used to smoke—very naughty boy. I had my first cigarette when I was in sixth class, so it didn't take me long to get off them—about 30 or 40 years. But it's a tough game. Through the whole process, I think we have done a good job.

In essence, now there's a lot more of a health-conscious vibe going through schools. It's helping the reduction of alcohol consumption as well. You find that there are a lot of people growing up now who just don't drink, and you can see that when talking to some of the some of the companies that produce wine. They say they're pulling out grapes, pulling out vines. I ask: why? They say it is because a lot of people just don't drink anymore. So there is success.

Where could we get the money to run the health programs, because you always have to find your offset? Where would we get the money to run the programs to encourage people not to smoke? Well, you could get it from the excise that you would attain from reducing the price of cigarettes. The mechanisms of starting smoking are not so much price; the mechanisms of continuing smoking and the product you buy are very much determined by price. People start smoking not because it's cheap but because they think it is a scene. It's a form of rebellion. It's almost an iconography that they want to display. It's a statement about their independence. It's a range of things, but it's never really price. But once you hooked, by gosh, it's price that is the big determinant of the product you are buying.

In closing, I would say that this is just so self-evident. It's just right there in front of us. I know that the government will decide to continue on this path of finding the poorest people in Australia, charging them more and then complaining about the growth of the mafia market. Let's try and stop it. This is self-evident. I leave it to the House.