The minister at the table is proudly saying that he 'designed the damn card'. Most of us come here because we want to change the nation—we want to build infrastructure, and we want to make sure we leave the next generation better off than the generation that came before. Instead, what this government is looking to do by expanding the cashless debit card is clearly something those opposite know they should be embarrassed about. Until the government can properly rule this out—and I quote the minister again—

Ms Collins interjecting —

Mr Tudge interjecting —