My question again is to the Minister for Social Services. Yesterday, when the minister was queried about his cuts to family tax benefits that will hurt grandparent carers, the minister answered, 'The point being made here by Labor is a fair point.' The minister then confirmed grandparent carers will be $2½ thousand a year worse off. Does that mean the minister designed these cuts to family tax benefits in full knowledge that they would leave grandparent carers around $2½ thousand a year worse off?

Mr Morrison interjecting—

Mr Pyne interjecting—