I ask you, Madam Speaker, how can they say that co-payments for Medicare are wrong and co-payments for the PBS are right? They simply cannot sustain the logic of their position. Their position is simply untenable. Now we have this slightly sad attempt by members opposite to say that people are going to be deprived of vital health treatment because of the same modest co-payment on Medicare that people have always faced in respect of the PBS. Let me read something: 'Is anyone seriously suggesting that, in the circumstance you're talking about, where there is the possibility—'