As the member for Kingston has pointed out, these people do not have a problem all the time; they have a problem when they are in a gaming situation. They have moments of reason, moments of lucidity.

Mr Ciobo interjecting—

The evidence before the committee was quite clear on this point. It might have been evidence that was delivered on some of the many days when the member opposite who is interjecting so much was not there, but it was very clear that the expert evidence before the committee—