Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Human Services, Senator Payne. I refer to comments on consumer leases made by ASIC Deputy Chair, Mr Peter Kell, who said last month:

It is not uncommon for consumers to pay three or four times more than the purchase price of the leased goods. In some cases it can be up to six times.

Is the minister aware that consumer leasing businesses specifically target Centrelink clients and that these leases cause financial hardship for Centrelink clients, who are encouraged to make payments through Centrepay?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In acknowledging issues that have been raised around the use of Centrepay by a number of providers, the government announced in May this year a series of changes and an expansion of services for which Centrepay could be used to include, for example, no-interest loans, low-interest loans, lay-by and a number of other things. The Assistant Treasurer, the Hon. Josh Frydenberg, announced just last week that there will also be a review of the small amount credit contract laws that will consider in fact whether those laws should be extended to apply to regulated consumer leases. That is a suggestion that has also been made by a number of stakeholders in this area.

What the government has endeavoured to do in the changes it has made—and I have discussed this in the chamber and elsewhere with Senator Cameron previously—

Senator Fifield interjecting—

In estimates, Senator Fifield. The government is endeavouring to strike a balance between strengthening protections for customers and not interfering unduly with existing means of urgent access to necessity goods. One thing we have to be acutely aware of is that the broader products to which Senator Cameron refers are not as immediately widely available as we would like them to be before we can contemplate, in my view, the sorts of suggestions Senator Cameron is making. The alternatives to consumer leases for which we have expanded Centrepay are ones we hope that our customers will take up. Until they are available through on a much larger scale I do not want to close all use of Centrepay for regulated leases. We have gone out of our way to inform customers and providers who have a consumer lease about these alternatives. While fixed term consumer leases do typically involve higher costs than outright purchases, they are regulated and that provides an important level of protection. (Time expired)

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the Assistant Treasurer who has 'absolutely agreed' that interest rates on consumer leases can be much higher than the already exorbitant rates payday lenders charge. Does the minister agree with the Assistant Treasurer's opinion that effective interest rates charged under consumer leases are beyond exorbitant?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I did in my previous answer—and I am not sure Senator Cameron heard me—acknowledge those concerns in relation to those typically higher costs.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He had prewritten his follow-up question.

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is the problem, Senator Cormann, isn't it, when you can't be spontaneous? I did in fact acknowledge that earlier. I also referred in my previous answer to the Assistant Treasurer's remarks.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

'More spontaneity' she says!

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, it would liven things up a little more, Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Lively!

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I think more tedious than lively, but there we are. The Assistant Treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, as I said, has announced the review of the small amount credit contracts and the related provisions of the national credit consumer—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Cameron?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, this is on relevance. I do not want to be tedious—

Government senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right!

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question goes to whether the minister agrees with the Assistant Treasurer that the interest rates charged under consumer leases are beyond exorbitant. You should draw her attention to that question. She should try to answer it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron. I remind the minister of the question. She has 19 seconds in which to answer.

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would not say Senator Wong was tedious. I was saying in relation to tedium that I do not expect Senator Cameron to change the habits of a lifetime. I did say in my first answer what my views were about the products. Senator Cameron has also referred to the Assistant Treasurer's review. That is why we have incorporated those particular products into the small amount credit contract laws review. (Time expired)

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given the Assistant Treasurer's obvious concern over the true cost of consumer lease contracts, shouldn't consumer leasing businesses be excluded from Centrepay, like payday lenders?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let me say for the third time, which may mean I will be accused of tedious repetition, that that is exactly why the small amount credit contract laws review has been announced by the Assistant Treasurer to include these products. It is a review that fulfils the statutory requirement under the credit act and it will also consider, as I said, whether the regulatory requirements for SACCs should be extended to regulated consumer leases. I have explained twice why I am not immediately excluding them. Senator Cameron disagrees. I have indicated that we are agreeing to disagree in the chamber previously. Senator Cameron simply does not accept that.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.