Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Carr. Can the minister advise why the government should be trusted with a blank cheque for its proposed changes to the Migration Act after its disastrous decision to abolish the Howard government's successful border protection policies, the failed Afghan and Sri Lankan asylum freeze, the failed East Timor solution and the failed Malaysia solution, which alone has resulted in 241 illegal boats arriving with 12,262 people onboard, including 100 boats and approximately 440 drownings on the current Prime Minister's watch?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Cash for her question. Temporary protection visas—she has made a great deal of these—did not stop boats arriving. Those on TPVs ended up with permanent visas. It is a pretty simple message: those on TPVs—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, resume your seat. When there is silence we will proceed.

Senator Brandis interjecting—

Senator Brandis, I have just asked for silence.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

TPVs actually ended up with more women and more children on boats. TPVs were a dismal failure because people on TPVs ended up with a permanent visa. TPVs were introduced by the Howard government in October 1999. They said it was to defer boat arrivals. In fact, they did not stop the boat arrivals. There were 3,722 unauthorised boat arrivals in that year alone. During the next two financial years—

Senator Brandis interjecting—

Lord Brandis has asked me a question. He has asked me, 'How many people?' Well, 8,500 people—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: this is the second time that Senator Carr has referred to Senator Brandis not by his proper title, and I think you should call him to order.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order, on both sides! If there was less noise in this chamber, Senator Cormann, it would be very helpful.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, he asked us to call him Lord Brandis.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Evans, that does not help the afternoon.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Have you seen his letterhead?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, that does not assist the continuation of question time.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can tell Senator Cash is that more than 90 per cent of the 11,000 people who were granted temporary protection visas were granted a permanent visa to live in Australia. That would hardly fit into any category of deterrence. Ninety per cent of 11,000 people who got a TPV ended up—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How many—90?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ninety per cent. It would strike me by any description that that was not what the policy of those opposite set out to do. Ninety per cent of the 11,000 people who were so badly treated by the TPV program ended up with a permanent visa. Of the 9,043 who were granted a TPV, 8,600, or 95 per cent, were subsequently granted a permanent visa by the time TPVs were abolished. (Time expired)

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. To continue along the long line of failures, I refer to the comments, as reported in the Australian newspaper, of an Afghan asylum seeker who reached Australia after the High Court demolished the government's so-called Malaysia agreement, which said:

… he easily found a people-smuggler in Indonesia after being told the "route was open again".

Isn't it the case that, since the government abolished the Pacific solution and temporary protection visas, the Rudd-Gillard government and their policies have become the people smugglers' business model?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Might I just remind Senator Cash that Indonesia is not a signatory to the international conventions. Your policy position is that you would turn the boats around and tow them out to sea. This is the policy position that you tried to put, Senator, and you try to claim you have got this superior attitude when it comes to human rights. I put it to you, Mr President, that a policy that sees the drowning of people on the high seas is not very humanitarian. That is exactly the policy position of the previous—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We will continue when there is silence. The time for debate is after 3 pm.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When we are lectured by those opposite on humanitarian issues, particularly with their sorry record when it comes to the actual deportation of Australian citizens or the locking up of people who have permanent residence— (Time expired)

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer to the comments made by senior Labor Left faction leader Senator Doug Cameron, who says of the government's planned policy changes that 'they breach Australia's international obligations and the ALP's stated policy'. If the government's own caucus members do not have confidence in its border protection policies, how can they expect the Australian public to?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I find it quite incredible that the opposition, which is so badly divided on these questions, would seek to give us advice. People are engaging in a serious public debate about the humanitarian treatment of refugees and our international treaty obligations—which the government maintains it is honouring through the legislation it has before the parliament—whereas your policy is to tow back to sea vessels that come to this country, risking the drowning of many thousands of people. We have a situation where your historical record is a legacy of shame—and you want to give us advice on human rights! I find you have more front than Myers to be able to argue that case. Frankly, your position is without credibility. You have no credibility when it comes to the issue, given the way in which you have treated Australian citizens, let alone people seeking refugee status in this country. (Time expired)