Luke Simpkins (Cowan, Liberal Party) Share this | Hansard source

I do appreciate the opportunity to make a contribution to this debate on the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 tonight. It really is a sign of the times that we live in. Recently, the foreign minister said that at no time in the United Nations' history have we had so many peacekeeping police operations taking place in the world. So, although we might think that, of recent times, we are much more civilised and the world is a safer place, through assessments such as that—who is deployed where around the world—you begin to think that maybe things are not exactly going according to plan.

The reality is that there are people around the world that have certain views of the way the world should operate, the way certain countries should operate. Theocracies—countries based upon an interpretation of a religion—do not have a great history. But, nevertheless, there are those people, and when these people rise and try to run countries with a theocratic background, it does not really work out and we start to have problems in the world. In response to the numbers of Australians that have shown interest in IS, al-Nusra and other terrorist organisations, and seeing these sorts of threats to the world and even to our own country, obviously something needed to take place. The government needed to react. Again, like the member for Bowman, I am very proud to be part of a government that has identified what the problem is and has acted swiftly to reduce that threat and to take action against such people.

In the past, in other contributions that I have made here in the parliament, I have looked at the information on the backgrounds of some of these people that have come from Australia. As we know, it is not just confined to people that might be from a lower socioeconomic background. There is a range of different people. They are male mainly, but their ages range from 18 to 40. These are the sorts of people that are ending up going over there. I often consider that what they are trying to do with their lives is find some meaning. Maybe they feel that there has been a lack of success in their lives. Obviously, this is the wrong view and they are wrong to pursue these sorts of ventures such as support for IS. It is a terrible, illegitimate, evil organisation. It is not a culture at all, just the worst in human nature. That is what IS appeals to. I guess if people tell them that they are going to be accomplishing something special or important or religious, then that might drive some people and might encourage some people to be part of such terrible organisations.

But I think it is a little bit worse than that as well. I think that some of what attracts these people is being able to hurt other people. I think that that is one of the things that really attracts some of these people. If anyone wants to cut people's heads off and parade them around or encourage one's children to hold a severed head in their hand, there is something not right about that person. Maybe they are drawn to an interest in actually hurting people. I think there are those that also like the concept of being able to rape others as well. I guess this is another point that these sorts of people are attracted to. I think there are probably also the paedophile natures amongst them as well.

I find nothing to recommend such people. I think that they are pretty much subhuman. Personally, of those that have already left, I say good riddance. If it were up to me, and if it were within my realm of responsibility, I would say that these people are exactly the sort of people we do not want anymore. If they should get in the way of falling ordnance from Australian or other aircraft then I say that that is not too bad a thing either, because the people who are attracted to these sorts of ventures—the people who think there is something good about the Islamic State, Daesh, or al-Nusra—are not the sorts of people who will ever add any great value to this country, or any value at all. If death befalls them there is nothing wrong with that.

But unfortunately, it is not just those who manage to make it overseas that we are concerned with. There are people in this country as well who actively support them, recruit for them and raise money for them. In these sorts of moments it really is right for this government to do as it is doing and pursue these people. Internationally we have an obligation not to let people leave this country to add fuel to the fire. So we should stop them, and we should act against them.

With respect to the control orders that have been part of this debate, there have been some in the community who have expressed some concern. Obviously, through the amendments suggested by the Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security some of these issues have been resolved. I welcome that resolution. But, in any case, it is really important that our intelligence agencies—ASIO and ASIS, together with the Australian Federal Police and in their interactions with the Australian Defence Force—are given all the tools to add to their ability to interdict these terrorists, because if someone goes overseas to kill people in the name of religion, or to do other terrible acts to people in the name of religion, then they will see the faults that they have seen in the groups that they oppose in those countries, here in Australia. Once someone has made that decision—that they want to go and hurt people, kill people, decapitate people, rape—they are no longer someone we could ever trust in this country. It is important that our security agencies have the capacity—through this bill and elsewhere—to act against them. I welcome that and I applauded it.

All the best to you, ASIO, ASIS, the AFP and the Australian Defence Force! All power to you to do what needs to be done to keep the people of this country safe! And, ultimately, all power to the ADF and ASIS, to keep other places in the world as safe as they can be, as well—within our legitimate and lawful responsibility.

In every way, I applaud this bill. As I said before, there is nothing good that can be said of these sorts of people, and we must be do everything in our power to act against them; there is no doubt about it. This bill, as we know, contains a series of amendments. This is the not the first bill; the government has acted in two other bills as well. The amendments contained within this bill address three key areas. One of the key areas is to help the Australian Secret Intelligence Service in their support for and cooperation with the Australian Defence Force on military operations. The second is to enhance the arrangements for the provision of emergency ministerial authorisations to the IS Act agencies to undertake activities in the performance of their statutory functions. The third is to enhance the control-order regime to allow the Australian Federal Police to seek control orders in relation to a broader range of individuals of security concern and to streamline the application process.

On that last point, I would like to raise a particular issue. Whilst I totally endorse this bill, and the two others before it, it is always right for us to consider these things and to think about whether they could ever be better—whether more could be done. I know there has been some debate and some commentary. I support that. A number of us remain concerned that the ability of the police to question people whilst they are being detained under a control order needs some more work.

Ultimately, the role of ASIO—and, to a degree, the Australian Federal Police—is to keep Australians safe and to keep this country safe. If, for instance, it comes down to whether lives could be lost when the pursuit of evidence is considered more important than the gathering of information, then we need to think carefully about that. I think that even if information obtained from someone who has been detained under a control order is later deemed to be inadmissible as evidence—or is struck out in a trial—if that information then leads to a terrorist attack being undermined or interdicted, then that is a good thing. That is ultimately what it is all about.

It is all very well to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed to put someone in jail, but ultimately the first responsibility of these agencies is to keep people safe and to stop terrorist attacks. I do not see any problem with agencies being able to ask questions of someone under control orders. After reading someone their rights it should be admissible to question them—or it should be decided by a court whether it is admissible—and it should certainly be undertaken if there is information. On all occasions, it is really important that the police and other agencies have that ability to ask questions of people under control orders, to ensure that they know as much of what is going on or what the threat is as possible. I make that point, and I know that others have already made it in this debate.

In my background, I was in the Federal Police for a couple of years before I joined the Army for 15 years. I joined the Federal Police and then the Army from a sense of patriotism, where you look at the flag and you feel something special about it—but it is about more than just a flag. It is about a nation and the things that make it good: the freedom of speech, the freedom of opportunity, the freedom of religion and the equality of the genders. Being Australian is not about a flag; it is about a state of mind and a view that this country has developed to be the best country in the world because of its background and our intention to keep it safe and to keep all these problems out of the way.

When I look around and I see people betraying our country, taking up arms or supporting organisations like the Islamic State, which is also called Daesh, al-Nusra or any of those organisations—when I see people betraying their country because of some warped understanding of a religion or some other mentality—it reminds me that the freedom that we have and the greatness of our country must be defended. It is precisely through these sorts of bills and these sorts of measures that this country will remain the greatest country in the world and that the Australian people will remain safe.

We cannot ever be certain that we can stop every terrorist attack, but we must make sure that those people entrusted to take action on our behalf and on behalf of the people have all the arms and all the support they absolutely need. So I commend this bill to the House.

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