Senate debates Questions without Notice
Banking and Financial Services
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
1:59 pm
My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Does the Prime Minister seriously expect Australia's small businesses to believe his promise that banning credit card surcharges will save them money, when his own tax office decided that the very same policy was so financially damaging it would stop accepting credit card payments altogether?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
2:00 pm
I'll make a few points. The first point is a point about transparency. We as a government do think that it's important that the charges that people are paying are transparent and predictable, and that was not the case. I would also make the point Australians were paying around $1.6 billion a year in surcharges. I would also make the point that, as part of these reforms, there are lower fees now charged to process transactions, and the saving from that to business will be about $910 million. We're very conscious of the challenges that small business faces. I would make the point that 84 per cent of businesses did not surcharge before these changes. Obviously, those businesses are benefiting from lower fees charged to process transactions. And the major banks have already announced reductions in merchant fees. Westpac has cut fees by 41 basis points, and other major banks have also cut—
Anne Ruston SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care
Coffee's gone up!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
I'm just wondering if Senator Ruston is ever going to draw breath. She keeps interjecting on her own leader's question.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Senators:
Opposition senators interjecting—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
A bit of tension! In relation to the ATO, as we said, we do think that a transition period and engagement with small business is necessary. The government has stepped in to ensure that that transition is longer, to allow businesses time to adjust, and we look forward to those discussions continuing in the transition period, which we have extended.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
2:02 pm
Isn't it the height of hypocrisy that the ATO decided it couldn't afford to absorb credit card processing fees, but the Albanese government expects Australia's struggling small businesses to do precisely that?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
(): Thank you, Senator Cash. Minister Wong well. I make a few points. First, obviously the ATO is bound very clearly to levy tax in accordance with its statutory framework. The second point I'd make is that the majority of businesses—and I'll just give Senator Cash that figure again, which is 84 per cent of businesses—did not surcharge before these changes. Now, we accept there is a proportion of business that was imposing these charges. They obviously will gain some benefit from merchant fees being reduced, but there is a need for a proportion of small businesses to utilise credit cards in the context of the tax system. There has been a change on that. We recognise that comes with certain implications, which is why the transition period has been extended.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
2:03 pm
Well, the Albanese government has yet again been forced into another humiliating backdown, this time delaying the ATO's proposed credit card ban until 30 June 2027. Will the Prime Minister now direct the ATO to scrap it all together and accept credit card payments once again, heeding the calls from small businesses right across this country?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
2:04 pm
Senator Cash, I know that those opposite have really thrown any kind of economic and fiscal responsibility out of the window—
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
What about small businesses?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
No. You would know that that would come at a cost to the taxpayer.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
What about small businesses?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
What I have said to you is that we recognise that 16 per cent of businesses were applying.
James McGrath Queensland, Liberal National Party, Shadow Special Minister of State
Give yourselves an award!
Sue Lines President
Senator McGrath, I had just got the chamber to order!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
Again, I'd make the point that the coalition have been advocating for less government spending but in here come and advocate for more of it. At some point you actually have to make the sums add up. We know that last time their response was to go to the election with higher taxes and a higher deficit. That appears to be the same approach today.