Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. With $1 trillion in government debt, how much is the Commonwealth currently paying on interest on this debt each minute?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the shadow minister for finance for the question. It gives me the opportunity to reflect on the complete and utter hypocrisy of those opposite when they raise the issue of the concern and the hand-wringing around Australia's debt—

Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: relevance. I didn't ask for the minister's reflection. I asked a very tight question that I would like an answer to.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister had just stood to answer. I note that the interjections on my left started immediately. I remind you that you need to listen in silence. If the minister is not relevant to the question, I will draw her to that question.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

The complete and utter hypocrisy of those opposite when they come in here and hand-wring about Australia's public debt, because it—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm going to go with direct relevance. It was a very tight question.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again, the minister had just stood. She started referring to debt. I will continue to listen to her answer.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I can assure the shadow minister for finance that the debt we are repaying—most of which was accrued under those opposite from 2013 to 2022, if you go back and have a look—is less than it would have been had they been left in charge. We have paid down debt, and because we've paid down debt we are paying lower interest on that debt. They are the facts—two surpluses, returning upward revision to revenue to budget and finding savings. Debt is lower in every year that we have been in government than what it would have been if we had followed the path of those opposite.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Chandler, first supplementary?

Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, with $1 trillion in government debt, how much has the Commonwealth paid in interest on this debt in total since Labor came to government in May 2022?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I would remind those opposite that when we came to government, gross debt was forecast to be $977 billion. That was the figure for the 2020-23 fiscal year that you were responsible for.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, a point of order?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations) | Link to this | Hansard source

On direct relevance, that's an answer to a completely different question.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being directly relevant to Senator Chandler's question.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I am merely drawing to those opposite's attention the history and the facts of this matter, which is that the majority of the debt that we are managing now and managing in a much more responsible way was accrued under those opposite when they were in government. They doubled the debt before the pandemic hit—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash, a point of order?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, it is direct relevance. I'm not quite sure how much tighter we can draft our questions.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

I will remind you that the first part of Senator Chandler's question asks 'since this government was elected'. That was directly relevant. I can't be any clearer. As you know, I can't direct the minister to answer in the way that you might see fit, but your question is on relevance and direct relevance, and the minister is being both.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

As we outlined in this year's budget, debt is lower than what we inherited and interest payments on that debt are lower—

Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

No, it's not!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

In terms of the forecasts that we were provided, it is lower, and interest on that debt is lower because of the budget decisions that we have made.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Chandler, second supplementary?

Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, under your government, Australians have suffered the biggest fall in living standards in the developed world. There have been 15 interest rate rises and now a trillion dollars of government debt. This year, $28 billion will be spent just on the interest to that debt. That could be spent on 200,000 nurses or 400,000 aged-care packages or a thousand kilometres of regional highway upgrades. How can you claim that things are getting better when Labor's debt is wasting billions that could be helping Australians?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

The point I'm making is that we are managing the debt burden in a much more responsible way than those opposite. In fact, in this year, debt is $7 billion lower than it would have been under those opposite, who went to the last election promising higher taxes, bigger deficits and more debt. Since the election, they have made a whole range of new promises that will mean that debt will be even higher going forward. So how are you going to pay for your income tax cuts? How are you going to pay for repealing all of the tax reform that we've done? How are you going to pay for the EV tax discount? How are you going to pay for removing better targeted super concessions? How are you going to pay with your defence spending? How are you going to pay for removing the HAFF? There is a whole range of areas. What about inland rail? What about the inland rail that you've promised to build? You have to explain how you're going to pay for that.