Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Minister, 96-year-old Audrey Staniland is blind, has emphysema and lives alone in the Perth home that she has lived in for 43 years. Audrey's health has deteriorated over recent years. Yet after reassessing her, using your government's assessment tool, your government's algorithm decided she needed no more funding than she was receiving 12 years ago. Her daughter challenged that decision. Audrey was assessed again. The answer was the same. The algorithm said no. Minister, how can a 96-year-old blind woman living alone with emphysema and other serious health needs deteriorate significantly over more than a decade yet your government's system still conclude she needs no additional support? If the system gets a case like Audrey so badly wrong, how can any elderly Australian have confidence in it?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sorry I don't recall her surname, but Audrey's case sounds extremely distressing. But what I would say is that we agree that every older Australian should be able to promptly access the aged-care needs that they require. I understand Ms Staniland's case is something the minister is aware of. I'm advised that Minister Rae has asked the department to look into the circumstances raised by Ms Staniland and her family. I would make the point that the principle should be that Australians are entitled to expect they can promptly access aged care appropriate for their needs. I acknowledge that more work needs to be done, and the minister is working through the implementation of a system that is new, a system which also saw, in this budget, the investment of an additional $3.7 billion in aged care.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) | Link to this | Hansard source

Fix the mess that you made.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll take the interjection from Senator Ruston, who insists on forgetting that you presided over a period in aged care which a royal commission described as neglect. So, for you to come in here, Senator Ruston, in the way you have, you ought to remember and bear on your conscience that you presided, in your government, over a system that was described as neglect. We are putting in an additional $3.7 billion, just in this budget, and we are working to ensure more care is provided. The position that Ms Staniland was in is not what we want older Australians to experience, and Minister Rae has asked that the matter be reviewed. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Colbeck, first supplementary?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

Professor Kathy Eagar AM, a leading Australian expert on healthcare assessment systems, examined Audrey's case and described the algorithm as 'fundamentally completely flawed', yet Minister Rae says the system offers the best outcome for all people. So answer this plainly: does the Albanese government seriously believe that this was the best outcome for 96-year-old Audrey?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I've already said that I think Ms Staniland and her family are entitled to expect a different experience to the one you have described, and I have already said that the matter has been referred to the department. I would make the point that the minister has announced two important improvements in the way aged-care assessments work: (1) the rapid review of the prioritisation system, which is due, I think, next month and (2) a legislated review process so that the level of care provided can be changed if a person's needs and circumstances have not been properly captured in the assessment process.

I'd also make the point that we on this side have ensured, just in this budget, that an additional $3.7 billion has been put into aged care, and—

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you going to ring Audrey's daughter?

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Come to order, Senator Ruston.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, I remind you about neglect. You want to talk about a mess in aged care. You only need to see what occurred— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Colbeck, second supplementary?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, the Senate passed a private senator's bill to allow a qualified assessor to override the algorithm when it produces an obviously wrong outcome. Your government rejected it. The waiting list and wait times that older Australians are now experiencing are the worst they have ever been. How many more cases like Audrey's does the Prime Minister need before he admits that the system is broken and lets human judgement override the computer?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, I would say that we are making changes to improve the aged-care system. As part of that, obviously, we will continue to listen to the experiences of older Australians, families and those who work in aged care.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) | Link to this | Hansard source

They don't want you to listen; they want you to fix it.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, could I just answer the question without you constantly talking at me? Is that possible?

Really?

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I have, on a number of occasions, called the Senate to order—particularly you, Senator Ruston. If you can't listen in silence, I invite you to leave the chamber. Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll try again. This government does believe older Australians are entitled to dignity and care. This government does know that hard decisions have to be made, including some measures that those opposite oppose, to find the savings to put into the aged-care system, and we will continue to do that. You are—

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Environment and Water) | Link to this | Hansard source

Seriously? It's not even your question.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, I just sat the minister down halfway through her answer.

Order! Senator McKenzie and Senator Watt, come to order. Order on my left and my right—

Thank you, Senator Ayres. If I call you by name, I would expect you to continue to listen in silence or to come to silence and not continue being so disrespectful. Minister, have you finished your answer?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I will try again and make this point: the government does believe that older Australians deserve dignity and respect. The government does recognise that we have to put more funds and more resources into the aged-care system, and we are. The government recognises that we need to improve the way the assessments— (Time expired)