Nick McKim (Tasmania, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

At the start of my contribution, I spoke at length about the fact that the NDIS is a beneficial scheme for people with disabilities, disabled people, and, of course, so it is. But it also benefits our community more broadly. Specifically, it benefits many people who are parents of disabled people.

I want to take this opportunity to put on the record the views of two people who I know in my home state of Tasmania. They are parents who have two kids with intellectual disabilities, and both of those children are on NDIS plans, and that includes one of those two children who has Down syndrome. I spoke to both of those parents today. They're deeply concerned about the impact not just for them but for many, many other disabled people and parents of disabled people. They explained to me in the course of our conversations today how the NDIS paved the way for them to create a life that was specifically tailored to the interests of their child with Down syndrome and how he currently has an amazing life because the NDIS has enabled him to have an amazing life.

They wanted me to be clear with the Senate about their view that the NDIS enables people to continue to be part of the broader community, and they wanted me to make sure that the Senate understood their view that the consequences and the ramifications of this legislation passing would be huge. They told me that the cutting of funding that facilitates and supports disabled people as proposed in this legislation was going to take us back into the dark old days when people with disabilities—or at least when more people with disabilities—were hidden and/or institutionalised.

They made the point—this is critical—that people with intellectual disabilities often need the benefit of support workers to be able to interact with other people and to be able to establish their own social connections. They often need the benefit of support workers to have fun in their lives and to experience, in their own way, the life that many of us simply take for granted. They also asked me to make the point that, for them and for many other parents of people with disabilities, the support services are desperately needed to give the parent or the carers for people with disabilities some respite and that this cannot be underestimated as a positive social benefit to the NDIS scheme.

They really wanted me to stress that this is about not only supporting disabled people and allowing and assisting disabled people to lead dignified lives but that disabled people have the ability to profoundly enrich the lives of everybody that they come into contact with. Having supports like those supports provided with the NDIS helps with that. Yes, it helps disabled people. Yes, it helps parents and carers of disabled people, but it profoundly helps the broader community because their lives are enriched many, many, many times when they come into contact with disabled people.

They've also asked me to put on the record that funding that enables community participation or recreational activities gives people with disabilities, disabled people, a rich life outside of their family supports and, as I said earlier, allows carers, parents and other family members the time, mental space and other resources to replenish their own energies. This will have profound consequences for disabled people, parents and family members of disabled people and people who care for and support disabled people.

They also wanted me to communicate that NDIS funding has enabled children to participate in what they describe as mainstream life to the extent that they can. For their son with Down Syndrome, this has meant the difference between having the very rich life that he does with NDIS support with an array of activities that suit his interests and keep him active and engaged and, alternatively, the future that they may be facing, which is some level of lesser support within a group situation that bears no resemblance to the life that most of us are able to lead.

There are any number of good reasons why this legislation should not and must not be supported. The government's argument for this legislation is political spin. Absolutely, crack down on the fraud in the system that is perpetrated by providers. The Greens stand ready to work with the government because that fraud is taking money out of genuine supports for disabled people. We stand ready to work with the government on that.

But let's not pretend that this is about fraud. This is about budget savings. When you think about budget savings, you have to think about the choices that governments make. This choice is to punch down on disabled people in the most catastrophic, diabolical way just to save some money that could easily have been saved by reining in the tax breaks for wealthy property speculators, that could easily have been generated by making the super wealthy pay a wealth tax in Australia, that easily could have been saved by walking away from the catastrophic AUKUS deal or that easily could have been raised by applying a gas export tax in Australia. The fact that, of all of the parties of government, the Labor Party, who brought in this great achievement of the NDIS, now seeks to gut it means that they will stand condemned not just by the Greens but by history. I foreshadow my second reading amendment. (Time expired)

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Securing the NDIS for Future Generations) Bill 2026. In 2023, the Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability confirmed that the rate of disability in this country is nearly three times the rate of disability in the general population. It also found that the youngest children in the criminal justice system are most often Aboriginal children—people with neurodisability and those who are involved in child protection systems. The NDIS could be a part of the solution to stop the overincarceration of First Peoples and to stop the removal of our children.

But this scheme has never lived up to its potential for First Peoples with a disability. First Peoples with disability are 28 per cent less likely to receive care via the NDIS than the rest of the population, and the government ignores the extended kinship networks in many Aboriginal communities that spread caring responsibilities across grandparents, aunties and uncles, older siblings and community members who contribute to the care of a person with a disability. These networks of care pick up the pieces where there are no appropriate services, yet they are unrecognised, undervalued and unsupported.

These inequities will be made even worse under Labor's bill. I'm going to outline just a few of the ways that this bill is going to harm First Peoples with a disability. The bill requires that a person with disability confirms the disability is permanent and then goes to all lengths to demonstrate they have exhausted all possible treatments before accessing the NDIS. Apart from being entirely inconsistent with the concept of disability under the UN convention, this part of the bill means that so-called treatments are only accessible to people who already have the financial means and support systems to access them. This bill will allow a person's functional capacity, needs and plan to be assessed without considering their personal, social and environmental factors.

This is despite the royal commission being very clear that the experiences of First Peoples with disability can't be separated from the ongoing impacts of colonisation, intergenerational trauma and racism. This same plea is included in several submissions by First Peoples to the inquiry into this bill. A person can be kicked off the NDIS if the government cannot contact them. It doesn't matter if they don't have a phone, laptop, internet access or are even living in the long grass. If they don't have the resources or an address—and most Aboriginal people are homeless on their own lands—then they have no hope. We know that most First Peoples who live remotely are excluded from internet connectivity, and this provision intentionally targets and punishes them further.

This bill will make it much harder for Aboriginal community controlled organisations to become NDIS providers, with new burdens on administration. Community controlled organisations are already heavily regulated. With fewer ACCHOs providing NDIS supports to First Peoples with disability, there will be fewer culturally safe supports available. The burden this bill places on ACCHOs directly contradicts the government's claim that it will strengthen ACCHOs through Closing the Gap. This bill is going to mean fewer First Peoples with disability will get the support they need, and the available supports will lack cultural safety and geographic accessibility. This is just another way that the state will force my people off country to get the basic support they need to meet their daily needs.

No-one would dispute that the NDIS, just like all government programs, should be run on principles of transparency, accountability, equity and fairness so that people who use the NDIS get the best possible supports given by the best providers. But this bill is not about strengthening the NDIS. Instead, Labor is treating people with disability as collateral damage for their own maladministration to cut hundreds of thousands of people from necessary supports.

Minister McAllister's claim that people must be cut from the scheme because it was never designed for so many people is gammon. If policy can't be designed and changed to meet the needs of the people, what's the point of it? Of course, government spending on the protection racket that is AUKUS has never been questioned. AUKUS has never been subject to proper public scrutiny—even now that we are paying hundreds of billions of dollars for op shop submarines. In addition, the government magically found $52 billion for increased defence capabilities in the recent budget. The marginal cost to ensure the NDIS delivers to all who need it is nothing in comparison. If all the government cares about is the economic bottom line, they should know that, when run properly, the NDIS can save money by supporting people to participate in society. This is not just my opinion. The Productivity Commission, the Grattan Institute and Disability Advocacy Network Australia, among others, have all come to the same conclusion.

The problem is not just the bill but the way that Labor has tried to ram it through this parliament. The Labor government has been dragged kicking and screaming to have an inquiry into this bill. At first, they insisted on only a three-day hearing into such significant legislation. Then, after massive community backlash, the inquiry was extended to 12 weeks. Still, the inquiry only heard from a handful of First People's organisations, and the inquiry's final 164-page report only mentions First Peoples with disability 27 times. Mostly these mentions are formalities, tick boxes and do not actually analyse the impact of this bill on my people in any substantial way. So even though we all know that First Peoples with disability will be most harmed by this bill—you've made sure of that—yet again, we have largely been ignored, sidelined and erased.

I want to be very clear to every senator in this place that, if you vote to pass this bill, you are acknowledging that the bill will significantly impact all people with disability getting support to live everyday life, and it will disproportionately and severely harm First Peoples with disability; you are voting with the full knowledge that First Peoples with disability and First Peoples disability organisations have not been properly consulted about it nor given their free, prior and informed consent for it; and you are comfortable with the fact that the bill will breach the human rights of First Peoples with a disability by making it harder to access culturally safe supports. It will force many off country and disregard people's personal, social and environmental circumstances in making decisions about their capacities and needs. I hereby also foreshadow my second reading amendment to that extent. This bill must not pass in its current form.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd like to acknowledge and thank all of the senators who have spoken in this debate on the bill. There are few programs that have transformed lives as profoundly as the National Disability Insurance Scheme, and it stands alongside Medicare as an expression of who we are as a nation. We're a nation that believes every person deserves dignity, independence and the opportunity to participate fully in community life.

Despite all that it has achieved, the future of the NDIS is at risk. Its growth is unsustainable, its market structure too chaotic, and it has deviated from its original intent. There is too much fraud, and, in many instances, the services which are offered to people with disability are not of the quality that we would expect. I have spoken to participants and parents and to providers and everyday Australians who worry that the scheme is becoming unsustainable. They worry that, without action, it won't be around for the long term. If we fail to act now to address this, we could lose one of Australia's greatest achievements—a program that has redefined what is possible for people with disability. It is our responsibility to safeguard and strengthen the scheme so it can continue to be one of Australia's most important social support schemes and so it will be there for Australians in the future.

The NDIS must be sustainable. It must maintain the support of the community, but a scheme that will cost $70 billion in 2030 and $100 billion a year by the middle of the next decade risks undermining that support. Social and community participation supports, on their own, already cost as much as the PBS. This bill takes practical, measured steps to deliver on our responsibility to secure the scheme for future generations. It fights fraud and it stops the rorts. It slows rapid cost increases. It clarifies eligibility requirements. It delivers quality services for participants. It sets us up for a sustainable scheme into the future, and, importantly, it protects the NDIS for those who need it most. On this basis, we will not be supporting the second reading amendments that have been circulated thus far.

I want to make special mention of fraud. One of my key priorities since taking on this portfolio has been improving the integrity of the scheme. I am grateful for the support of this parliament earlier this year to legislate new offences, new powers and new safeguards. There is more to do. Every dollar that is taken by fraud is a dollar that is taken from someone who needs it. The NDIS must be safe and operate with integrity. Those who defraud the NDIS are exploiting the hundreds and thousands of Australians who rely on the life-changing supports that the NDIS delivers. Since coming to government, we have invested $1.35 billion in tackling fraud and noncompliance in the NDIS, including over $800 million in this budget.

Any claim that this bill does not deal with fraud is simply wrong and is made disingenuously. There are five schedules in this bill. Schedule 2, which is titled 'Fraud measures', is the longest of those five schedules. There are more pages in the legislation focused on fighting fraud than on any other measure. I hear senators' claims that there ought to be more savings to government from tackling fraud. This fundamentally misstates the problem. There are few savings to the budget because, generally, when we disrupt fraud, we disrupt fraudulent behaviour that takes money away from disabled people. When we disrupt it, we see that money returned to the disabled person, who needs that money. It doesn't go back to consolidated revenue. It doesn't produce a save. That is the wrong metric to measure our success or otherwise in tackling fraud. Members and senators know this, but they keep repeating this false claim. Integrity and sustainability are not mutually exclusive. We can pursue both at the same time, and that is what we are doing. Our focus is on tackling the crooks for the benefit of participants and for taxpayers, and it is what this bill does.

I want to finish by thanking the many disability leaders, advocates and representatives who have continued to engage in constructive dialogue on these reforms. I know that this is a challenging debate. I have appreciated your practical proposals and your willingness and ability to work collaboratively with us to ensure that the drafting and the practical implementation arrangements reflect our policy intent. Our shared commitment to the NDIS will ensure that it continues to be part of Australia's social infrastructure today and for future generations.

Like our government, disability advocates understand our responsibility to ensure that this debate, which has material impacts for people with disability, is conducted in a reasonable way and is based on the actual measures within the bill. We should not, in this place, unnecessarily stoke fear in the community while debating, in the robust way that is our tradition, in an appropriate way, the measures that are in the bill. I hope that this chamber can fulfil this responsibility in its consideration of this bill.

After the passage of this bill, the NDIS will continue to be one of the largest per capita investments in support for people with disability in the entire OECD. It will remain the second-largest social program in the Commonwealth after the aged pension. It will continue to be a life-changing support for Australians. Most importantly, it will have a better chance of being part of Australia's social contract for the long term.

Debate adjourned.