Barbara Pocock (SA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. Minister, KPMG's sins are on the public record. They've lied to the parliament multiple times, they've used confidential client information to win new audit work multiple times, they've cheated on exams multiple times and they've hounded and mistreated a whistleblower. Given all of these ethical and leadership failures, do you believe KPMG should be contracted at $1.3 million—as they are right now—to provide ethics training to the public sector's leaders?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Pocock for the question, and I acknowledge her work along with Senator Deb O'Neill, Senator Paul Scarr and Senator Colbeck in relation to PwC and looking at the consultancy sector—and, in this case, the accounting and auditing sector—and the behaviour and ethics of some of the companies involved in that.

In relation to the contracts that currently engage the Public Service or the public sector—various entities—with KPMG, we have not been made aware of any—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Pocock?

Barbara Pocock (SA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order on relevance: my question was very specifically about a $1.3 million contract to train the senior Public Service in ethics and leadership. Is it the minister's opinion that that's a problem?

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, the minister went directly to that question. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I was just getting to that. And Senator Pocock knows that the contracts, which existed prior to Senator O'Neill's contribution in this place to raise concerns that the whistleblower had made, were entered into prior to this time. We also have no evidence that any of the unethical behaviour that we have seen raised through the committee that Senator O'Neill chairs has been involved in any of the contracts that exist across government.

Senator Pocock sought through a question I got in the media for me to cancel contracts. Now, that is against the law. So Senator Pocock is asking me to break the law, because ministers have no role in procurement—none—nor should they. But also, if indeed I did break the law and say that this contract should be cancelled, it would have no legal effect. For all the grandstanding in the world, Senator Pocock, I cannot do what you're asking me to do. We have a pause with KPMG at the moment that we'll continue until the review is finished.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, first supplementary?

Barbara Pocock (SA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

It doesn't pass any sort of pub test to have this mob training our senior leaders in ethics. On 15 June I referred KPMG to the National Anti-Corruption Commission. They are also under investigation by ASIC and the Tax Practitioners Board. The current TPB chair, Peter de Cure, is a former senior partner of KPMG, and he worked there for 25 years. This raises a very obvious conflict of interest. Minister, do you believe that Mr Peter de Cure, former KPMG partner, should recuse himself from the current TPB investigation of KPMG?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

I would expect the TPB, with which you have had extensive dealings, Senator Pocock, would manage any perceived or potential conflict of interest, as is appropriate and as we would expect any public authority—in fact any executive team—to manage. I would expect that the Tax Practitioners Board does exactly that.

In relation to KPMG and the action that we have taken, we have a review underway that has been headed up by Dr Ian Watt, who is going to undertake that review to look across government at the contracts that exist with KPMG. We are extremely concerned and disturbed by what we have read around the whistleblower's allegations and indeed the admissions by KPMG. And I thought Senator O'Neill's committee, which sat late Friday a week ago, was very enlightening as to some of the behaviour that's been undertaken, and we will be looking closely at that and the review, when it comes in.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, second supplementary?

Barbara Pocock (SA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

Two of the big four firms have now shown us extraordinary unethical behaviour, and we're on a third parliamentary inquiry, as you've just referred to, into the big four firms. We know what is needed. There is a cross-parliamentary agreement. We've got the evidence and agreement on what needs to be done. It's now time for Labor to act and properly regulate these huge firms. Will you commit to the structural reforms we know we need for these huge partnerships, holding them accountable to the same tax, transparency and whistleblower standards as corporations?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Well, there are a number of areas there—indeed, the inquiry that's underway and the review that's happening under my portfolio by Dr Ian Watt. The Assistant Treasurer, Dr Mulino, is also undertaking and has released a discussion paper or is in the process of it—I think it's imminent, if it hasn't been released—to look at these issues, and we keep them under active consideration.