James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The government's consultation paper on arrangements for innovative startups proposes one set of capital gains tax rules for small businesses and another set of rules for so-called innovative businesses. Can the minister explain the difference between a small business and an innovative business?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Patterson for the question, and I'm grateful for him referencing the paper itself because I was surprised yesterday that so many questions were asked when clearly senators from the other side had not looked at the consultation paper which was put out. I want to make the first point which is that, in relation to small businesses, we have also announced amendments which would ensure that some 98 per cent of active small businesses will gain access to concessional CGT treatment. And what is remarkable?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, my point is because—I know you don't want to know this, but, if you care about small business, which is what the question appears to be about, one wonders why those opposite are going to vote against this. Why are you going to vote against provisions which enable—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Paterson, do you have a point of order?

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) | Link to this | Hansard source

It is on direct relevance. How the coalition may or may not vote on an upcoming piece of legislation is not relevant to my question. What's the difference between a small business and an innovative business?

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being relevant, but I have to warn the opposition particularly that I'm finding it very hard to hear the minister's answers because there's so much interjecting. Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

As you would, I hope, know, page 6 goes through some of the business activity requirements which are the features of what might be included as an innovative small business, but this is a matter that is being consulted—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Oh, they don't like consultation. They don't like consultation. Isn't it interesting? This is the party of small business. They don't want consultation with the startups.

An opposition senator interjecting—

What? Are you going to point your finger? Why don't you point your finger at me? Actually, Senator, why don't you just go join Pauline Hanson's party? That's where you actually want to be, mate. We all watch you backing her in.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Henderson, you were out of order, and I don't want to see that again. Minister Wong, please direct your comments through the Chair. Please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, page six of the discussion paper discusses some of the features of an innovative business. But of course— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Paterson, first supplementary?

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) | Link to this | Hansard source

Perhaps we'll work it out after the legislation has passed. The consultation paper refers to concepts such as innovation, commercialisation, scalability and growth potential. Who will determine whether a business satisfies those tests, and what objective criteria will be applied?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

My recollection of the discussion paper is that some of these terms are actually drawn from existing legislation and existing policies.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) | Link to this | Hansard source

So explain it then.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

On the day that we have achieved agreement for passage to the Senate of these ambitious reforms which are about delivering for Australians, the opposition is complaining about consultation with small business. Work that out. Work out that political strategy. On the day that we have achieved agreement of passage through this chamber of taxation legislation that is good for Australia, is good for Australian workers and good for Australian business, you are complaining about consultation with the small business sector.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Patterson, second supplementary?

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) | Link to this | Hansard source

If the government cannot tell businesses who will make those decisions or how those decisions will be made, how are businesses and investors supposed to make decisions with any certainty, and why doesn't the government just scrap these toxic taxes instead?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Now we see the whole point of the question, which was to re-ask yesterday's question so Senator Paterson could deliver that grab in the last minute. I look forward to his social media clip on this, but it will not hide the fact that they—two things. First, you are a policy-free zone, and, second, you went to the last election with higher taxes.

Senator Hume—higher taxes. Senator 'Higher Taxes' Hume is now the deputy leader of the Liberal Party—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, please—

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations) | Link to this | Hansard source

You lie.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

She has to withdraw that. You can't handle the truth.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong! Order! The last time I read the standing orders, I was in charge here. You will withdraw, Senator Hume, when I require you to. Senator Hume, withdraw.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations) | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition did go to the last election with higher taxes, and now they're complaining about a tax reform agenda which is ambitious and which will deliver real change for Australians.

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Today, the Prime Minister has announced the Albanese Labor government is another step closer to delivering its tax reforms that will help working Australians and make it easier for first home buyers to own their own home. Can the minister update the Senate on the progress the government is making in delivering these very important reforms?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you to Senator Polley for her question and for her ongoing advocacy for workers, businesses and first home buyers in the great state of Tasmania. The Albanese Labor government is another step closer to delivering our ambitious tax reforms that have three goals: first, to level the playing field and better align the tax treatment for income earned through working and income earned in other ways; second, to help more Australians recognise the dream of homeownership and be able to get into the property market; and, third, to improve productivity by encouraging investment and innovation.

Labor's tax package is pro-aspiration, pro-worker and pro-investment. Our reforms will build a better, simpler, fairer tax system, cut taxes for—Senator Hume, this is for you—more than 13 million workers, support 75,000 more homeowners to get into the market and deliver $3.8 billion in new measures that lower taxes for businesses and startups. And we are reducing compliance costs by $540 million a year.

We, on this side, understand the pressures Australians are under. That is why we know we have to make change. We are making real change that delivers for our economy and for working people. The question now is whether the three right-wing parties—the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation—will again try to block these reforms. I figure they probably will because we know what they have done before, which is consistently team up to block real change for Australians. We know they only offer anger. They do not offer any answers.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Polley, first supplementary?

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

The Albanese Labor government's tax reforms will also support small business and startups. Can the minister please outline what they will mean for Australia's small businesses. How many will benefit from the government's capital gains tax concessions, and how does this support back the businesses that employ Australians in every community across our nation?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I remind those on my left that any senator has the right to have her question heard in silence.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Then you would have trouble, wouldn't you, because—

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, I've called you.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you to Senator Polley. Senator Polley speaks about every community across the nation. I use this opportunity to welcome three mayors from South Australia to the Senate chamber. The Albanese Labor government's reforms will mean 2.7 million active small businesses—98 per cent of all active businesses—will be eligible for capital gains tax concessions. This is what they're going to vote against. We are also consulting on the new innovative business capital gains tax, which would mean a 50 per cent discount for early-stage investors, founders and employees in innovative startups. We back workers, and we are backing small business. Unlike you. You're going to vote against these changes. Our reforms are about tax relief and tax reform to make our economy work for more Australians, for more businesses and for future generations.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Polley, second supplementary?

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) | Link to this | Hansard source

() (): Ninety-eight per cent of small businesses—that's amazing. As the minister has outlined, the Albanese Labor government's reforms will make it easier for Australians to buy their first home, cut taxes to over 13 million working Australians and better align the tax treatment of labour and asset incomes. Can the minister outline if there are any risks to the government's plan to deliver real change for Australians, including another round of tax cuts and helping 75,000 additional Australians own their own home? (Time expired)

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

I notice, in that question, the coalition shouted over Senator Polley when she was outlining the benefits of these tax changes, because they don't want to acknowledge that our tax reforms will benefit workers, first home buyers and the Australian economy.

Sue Lines (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, stop the running interjections.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course, the biggest risk to these reforms is those across the chamber. It is the Liberals, it is the Nationals, and it is their great mate One Nation. It's like they're in a race to the bottom to see who can be more anti-aspirational and who can be more anti-worker. The Liberals and the Nationals, with Mr Taylor as shadow treasurer and, of course, Senator Hume as shadow finance minister, went to the last election promising they would unwind taxes for working people. Senator 'Higher Taxes' Hume, no matter how much you point your finger and shout at me, you can't get away from it, and they rewarded you by elevating— (Time expired)