David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Ayres. Minister, I refer to reports in the Australian Financial Review that energy ministers are considering rules to require data centres to fully offset their power usage. Is this confirmation that the voluntary national expectations the government released in March will be insufficient to effectively regulate data centres impact on our energy and water resources?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, it certainly is not. When I announced earlier this year the expectations for data centres I was very clear that that set of expectations that we had would need to be operationalised through the states in terms of planning approvals. We have, in the government, some of this work being conducted by my very able colleague from the House of Representatives. Assistant Minister Charlton has been engaging directly with data centre developers to make sure that they understand that what we require from them is additional electricity generation and transmission investment. Just like we want to see in big industrial electricity investments—those investments underwrite, at scale, additional generation to put downward pressure on prices, not just for their businesses but also for all Australian businesses.

You'll have seen the investment that the government made, along with Minister Crisafulli and the Queensland government, in the Boyne aluminium smelter. A billion dollars from the Commonwealth government, a billion dollars from the Queensland government and $7½ billion from Rio Tinto is being invested in new renewable electricity generation for Queensland. That is a slam dunk for Queensland. It means more generation, more transmission, lower prices and industrial jobs. I want to see—and I'm glad that my colleagues in the state government's energy ministers are prepared to operationalise those principles as they do their important work in the states—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister Ayres. Senator Pocock, first supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's interesting that Queensland is the one state that won't sign up to the new energy minister's rules. The NEXTDC CEO told Alan Kohler on his podcast That's Business with Alan Kohler, which is well worth listening to, that the national expectations were basically the current rules, which have been put on a website. Why have we got such lax government guardrails when it comes to data centres and when it comes to artificial intelligence?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, I'm not sure I agree with any of that proposition. We've been very clear in both our national artificial intelligence plan and the data centre expectations. The approach of the Australian government is that it is in the interest of Australians that we secure as much as possible of that investment not just in digital infrastructure but in the tech economy more broadly in Australia so we have agency, control, good jobs and a stronger, more secure Australia for the future, but we want to make sure that data centre development delivers for Australian jobs, Australian skills, Australian communities and that the national interest always comes first. That is what our framework is all about. It is in the Australian national interest and in the interest of Australians.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, second supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that the commissioner of Jobs and Skills Australia has said we can probably expect at least 6,000 job losses due to artificial intelligence in Australia, how is the government thinking about the trade-offs? How do you think about this huge benefit from data centres with the building effort that's taken away from constructing homes, which your government desperately says that you need? How are you weighing up these trade-offs while not actually having clear guardrails or more than just expectations which are the current rules on a website?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, the data centre expectations are being operationalised. They are reflected in the agreements that the Australian government has reached with a number of these organisations. The data centres and digital infrastructure operators are not the only interests—not the only technology—that we want to see here in Australia. We want to see the tech sector right through the stack being built here in Australia by Australians in the Australia national interest. That is why we are operationalising that in a cooperative way with the states. That is why, when the rubber hits the road in terms of planning approvals, we want to see the states ensuring that there is additional electricity generation so that downward pressure is put on electricity prices.