Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, Senator McAllister. Your government is expected to remove billions of dollars from the NDIS tonight. This is huge. It is reported that 160,000 disabled people will be removed from the scheme, more will be blocked from getting on in the first place, and it is also reported to be the biggest budget cut from a single policy decision in over a century. The disability community is deeply anxious about these changes and the lack of transparency surrounding them. Can you tell the Senate today which cohorts of disabled people will make up the 160,000 people that your government intends to remove from the NDIS?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Steele-John for his question. It is correct to say that this is a significant change, it is an important one, and it is a change we recognise is of significance to the disability community. It is why I have spent some time since the announcement was made speaking with representatives of that community and why the minister, Mr Butler, made clear in his remarks to the National Press Club that our intention is to proceed in consultation, in deep engagement, with the disability community about the policy changes that were foreshadowed in that speech.

The reason why this issue is so consequential is because the NDIS is one of Australia's great human rights achievements, and that achievement belongs to all of us but it particularly belongs to the disability movement that campaigned for this scheme. It is a big part of Australia's social policy legacy, it is one that Labor is proud of, and it needs to be sustainable. These things are not intentioned, but the scheme is still growing too fast. The scheme costs much more than was ever anticipated, and it is distorting other parts of the care economy.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Steele-John, on a point of order?

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is on relevance. I would ask the minister please to answer the substantive question: Which cohorts of disabled people will be removed from the scheme? Which cohort within the 160,000 people do you intend to remove?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Steele-John, you don't need to repeat the question—there was a lot in that question—and the minister is being relevant. Minister McAllister, please continue.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The scheme is growing too fast, it is distorting other parts of the care economy, there is too much fraud, and many aspects of the way the scheme is designed make it difficult to get this under control. It is on that basis we have announced reforms that we intend to progress with the disability community.

Amongst those other changes to eligibility that your question refers to, the NDIS review found the approach to accessing this scheme is inconsistent and inequitable. The change that we propose focuses on a fairer and more consistent access decision to return the scheme to its original intent. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Steele-John, a first supplementary?

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On Sunrise last week, you claimed that eight per cent of NDIS funding is being lost to fraud. However, at the Senate enquiry into the NDIS fraud dynamic, the agency claimed, and indeed confirmed, that the eight per cent figure isn't just provider fraud; it includes accidental errors. Why are you fear mongering and presenting inaccurate figures to the public about provider fraud in the NDIS?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think it's been important to be upfront with the community about the scale of fraud and of leakage in the system. This has been the subject of many discussions during estimates. The point I'll also make is that, for the most part, the providers that work in the NDIS get up every day and try and do the right thing, and they are mortified by the presence of providers who are doing the wrong thing. Where we see fraud, we very, very commonly see examples of harm and exploitation of people with disability. That is not consistent with the human rights objectives of the scheme, it is not consistent with the intentions of the scheme and it's certainly incompatible with delivering for the community that the scheme is designed to assist. We're determined to stamp it out.

I should say, as I think I've made clear in a number of media interviews, these measures around fraud are not primarily designed at sustainability and, for a range of reasons, there are other measures— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Steele-John, second supplementary?

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, budgets are about choices. Your government is choosing to cut an estimated $35 billion from the NDIS. Why is your government choosing to cut support for disabled people and our families instead of making billionaires and multinational gas corporations pay more tax?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This scheme needs to be sustainable. I want this scheme to be here in a decade's time and two decades time. In 10 years time, there will be a little boy or a little girl born with a significant impairment and disability, and I want that child and their family to know that this scheme will be there for them. Minister Butler has made clear publicly that the measures we are bringing forward are measures we would have brought forward in any case, irrespective of the budget context, to return this scheme to its original intent, which is to provide support to people with significant and permanent disability and to ensure that, for those people for whom this scheme is not going to be their primary means of getting support, there are other supports. We have worked with the states and territories on Thriving Kids and we will continue to work with them on foundational supports with the $10 billion provisioned in— (Time expired)