Pauline Hanson (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 3 September 2026:

(a) the scale, nature and drivers of waste, fraud and abuse within the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS);

(b) the adequacy of existing safeguards, compliance, auditing, investigative and enforcement mechanisms to detect, prevent and respond to waste, fraud and abuse;

(c) qualifications of workers under the scheme;

(d) the role of National Disability Insurance Agency processes, registered and unregistered providers, intermediaries, participants, nominee arrangements and any other relevant entities or persons in contributing to or preventing waste, fraud and abuse;

(e) the financial impact of waste, fraud and abuse on the sustainability of the NDIS and on taxpayers;

(f) the impact of waste, fraud and abuse on NDIS participants, including the diversion of resources away from Australians with genuine need;

(g) distortionary impacts of increased wages and fees for service under the scheme on the labour market and other industries;

(h) the impact of the scheme on the housing market and construction costs;

(i) the appropriate scope, powers and priorities of a Royal Commission into waste, fraud and abuse within the NDIS;

(j) any legislative, administrative or governance reforms required to strengthen oversight, restore public confidence and protect the integrity of the NDIS; and

(k) any other related matters.

Dorinda Cox (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you want to speak to that motion, Senator Hanson?

Pauline Hanson (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I do. What I've put up is a motion that we need to have an inquiry—I'd like to have a royal commission, but I've put up a motion for an inquiry—into the NDIS and the NDIA. I think it's an absolute disgrace—the way that has been run and the cost to the Australian taxpayers. It was written on the back of a napkin, initially, and the way it has been abused by a lot of people in this country, through fraud, I think is disgraceful.

It was set up by parents who were worried about the future of their children and how they would be cared for. That's why the scheme was set up.

As to what has happened, over a period of time, in the context of assessed risk and support coordination, in 2024 and 2025: the NDIA data indicates a rapidly expanding and uneven support coordination market, with significant fiscal and governance vulnerabilities. There were over 254,000 unregistered providers—to my understanding, now it's approaching 300,000 registered and unregistered providers, but over 254,000 unregistered providers were operating alongside only 16,000 registered providers, as of 25 June. In my understanding now, it's around 25,000 registered providers and about 280,000 unregistered. Support coordination expenditure exceeded $1.65 billion. Yet measurable participant outcomes remain unclear. These patterns expose several strategic, financial and regulatory risks that could affect the sustainability and integrity of the NDIS. And that is exactly what has happened.

Expenditure on support coordination continues to rise—approximately $1.66 billion in 2024-25—without demonstrable outcomes and improvements. Spending growth outpaces participant growth, increasing fiscal pressure on the scheme and Treasury oversight.

I just want to point this out, also. Take a look at another issue we need to look at: the immigration agents across Australia—look to see if they are importing people as students, or as new workers in NDIS and aged care. This is where our harm is stemming from in a majority of cases. Additionally, they are often NDIS providers, RTOs or the front for the RTO which is funnelling people into recognition of prior learning qualifications, and, believe me, the majority of these for this group of people are not a robust RPL they should be. Nothing but harm and fraud is happening.

There is a case where a shocking case has emerged involving Mumthaj Begam Kantara, a sixty-year-old former immigration agent who was banned from the profession for serious misconduct yet still managed to register and run an NDIS disability support service in Melbourne and allegedly stole nearly $300,000 from the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Begam pleaded guilty to 14 counts of dishonest conduct after claiming around $296,012 in payments for services that were never provided to five disabled clients between 2019 and 2022. Despite her migration agent ban for fraudulent applications and failing clients, she was able to operate the Elite Smart Community Care NDIS company, raising serious questions around oversight and how someone with a history of misconduct could be allowed to register so soon before sentencing.

Government authorities had previously found she was not a fit-and-proper person to give immigration assistance, having misled clients, mishandled fees and lodged fraudulent visa applications. Critics say that this case reveals gaps in monitoring and fraud prevention in both the migration and NDIS systems, especially where vulnerable people are supposed to be protected. Do you think stricter checks and longer bans should apply to people with proven fraud histories, or should systems be reformed entirely? I think they need to be both. They need to be reformed, and these people with proven fraud histories should not be allowed to go under the scheme.

Constantly, I am told by people that services are not provided to them, and we are getting ripped off by billions of dollars for people to actually walk their dogs, go on holidays, go on trips, go fishing, go to the cinemas and they've got to have the help and assistance. It's completely ridiculous what people allow because you want to give them a quality life. There are other people out there who are not on NDIS schemes who would dearly love to have their children allowed to go on riding lessons or swimming classes or on tours or holidays or go skiing or do this and that—everything like that. That's not about a quality of life. NDIS was set up to give people the health care and assistance that they need. It was not set up as a quality of life—enjoying these activities in life that the average person out there can only think of and is trying to save their moneys to do it, but it's not paid for by the taxpayer.

If we don't start reining in the fraud that is happening out there, we are not to have this scheme in the long term. By the rate it's going now—it's around $53 billion a year. This is going to blow out and is expected to be $100 billion by 2032. We're pouring more money into this than what we are with Medicare for the whole of Australia—28 million people. We've got around about 780,000 people that are now on the scheme. It's just mind boggling that these people and their complaints—one actually had chronic fatigue. 'Let's go and apply for NDIS'—we had another one that actually worked for NDIS and thought: 'No, she had lymph node problems, overweight. Let's get on the NDIS.' She was paid about $650,000 a year just to have a couple of carers which employed friends, and this was paying for first-class airfares from America to Australia, buying expensive bottles of alcohol for Christmas presents and buying tickets to the corporate box at the footy match for $45,000 to take family and friends—all thank you very much to the taxpayers. That was really good of the taxpayers, wasn't it? And guess what? She didn't have to pay it back. Where is the accountability?

There are other things that I've heard. I've heard of a prisoner who gets out of prison, gets on the scheme for $1.3 million. Another prisoner is on $803,000. Another prisoner is on $100,000. These are former prisoners. They were in our prisons. What I hear constantly from people is, 'Oh, listen, you mind my child and I'll get the NDIS. You mind my child and I'll mind your child.' They set up these scams. It's just unbelievable what goes on.

I cannot understand why the government has allowed this to happen. And it's not just this government; it was also the previous government. They did it as well. Cuddle therapy. Paying for your rent. Paying for your alcohol. This is all under the NDIS. Another thing people probably don't understand is it's not means-tested. You can be a multimillionaire and you can get NDIS—imagine that. And people do. And there's the rorting that goes on with your house. If you want another home or you want to do extensions because you're on NDIS: 'Well, let's go and get a new bathroom. Let's go and get a deck put on. Let's go and get a ramp put on.' This is out of control. This is costing not just a few thousand dollars; it can be half-a-million-plus.

They wouldn't release the figures for a long time. Some of the people here—we've got more than 5,000 people on the NDIS who are on schemes of more than a million dollars. I ask the question, have these people been paid out by their insurance companies? Maybe they had a road accident or something like that, so are they double-dipping with the scheme? Are they getting NDIS plus their insurance that's been paid out to them? There is so much fraud that is going on.

Another big thing the public should know is the amount they pay out in wages. They can claim wages of up to $195 an hour. Yet if you do that work in the normal field you're possibly getting around $70 or $80 an hour. If you're a nurse, you're getting less than that. But let's go on NDIS. You can make a heap of money out of this. That's why so many people are flooding to it. We've got 300,000 service providers for 780,000 to 800,000 people who are on NDIS. It doesn't make sense, does it? And we have these people jumping over to it because—and then we don't have these people who are professionals to deliver services to those in the community who need those services because they don't pay as much. They can only charge the average person out there about $80.

Oh, and I've got to mention this one! If you want to get your lawn mown it's normally about $70 or $80. 'No, mate, I'm on the NDIS.' 'Well, that's going to cost you $150 at least.' So let's just ramp up the cost. The taxpayer is paying for this. How disgraceful is it that this government has not reined this in. There has not been enough oversight to make sure that taxpayer dollars are accounted for. But that's not unusual for this government. I've seen it in many other departments right across the whole board. You have no respect for the taxpayer whatsoever.

Isn't it amazing that you have two men out there doing the rounds—Drew Pavlou and his mate Peter—

who are out there doing the government's job. They are investigating these businesses that are ripping off the taxpayers. They're the ones that are doing more with this than what the government are. With all your resources, all that fraud and you can't even deal with everything that goes on in this country. And yet you've got two young fellas doing it on the bones of their backsides and funding all this themselves and trying to save the taxpayers money. But the government is not interested in this. It's out there; it's staring you in the face. I get complaints from people all the time to my office. They are fed up with the fraud that's going on. They see it with their family, friends, neighbours and people in the community, and you can't tell me you don't get these complaints.

People have had a gutful, and this government is looking at increasing the capital gains tax and looking at death duties. You want to hit those people. You're attacking superannuation. You want more and more out of the people. You have an opportunity to rein in the NDIS and the fraud that's going on in this country. You have the opportunity to do it, and you don't. You want to tax the people more and more all the time. You don't care about the average person out there, who's trying to cope. I think it's disgraceful to allow some of these services to keep going on and on. You're not reining it in. Until we have equality in our system, regardless of whether you're an NDIS service provider, you should not be paid any more than what the average person is paid to provide the same service to any other person in the community who is not on the NDIS. That's why we need to have an inquiry into this. I wonder if the government has enough backbone to actually allow it to go to an inquiry. Do you really care about the taxpayer out there and want to rein in the problems that we have?

Another one is Cocoon. It collapsed and left a debt of payments owed in the millions—in total, $64 million in collapsed providers. That would've been in unpaid tax, super and wages. All these people have fallen over. You hear of one company being set-up, then they fall over, and then they go and set-up another company. What are you doing about the foreign students coming out here and taking up ABNs which they shouldn't have? No-one other than an Australian citizen should have an ABN. But they're registering ABN numbers, becoming service providers and ripping off the government. Then, at the end of the time, they're sending all the money overseas and they're not paying tax in the country, and you haven't even done anything about that either. This government is so disgraceful. You can't even rein in your own spending. You just think there's a money tree out there. It's plucked from the taxpayer, and you're not dealing with this whole issue. I hope that, because you care about the taxpayer, you will support an inquiry into the fraud that's happening with NDIS.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let's talk about the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Let's talk about disabled people in Australia. Let's talk about fraud in the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The first thing that is so important to state in this debate tonight is that this is a debate that has been started by a party that is attempting, this evening, to position its proposal for an inquiry into fraud in the NDIS. This party is attempting to frame its request to be something it is doing on behalf of disabled people. So, in that context, let me say this very clearly. There is no community in this country that cares more about fraud in the NDIS than disabled people and their families. Because, when fraud occurs—when we are the victims of fraud—it's more than a headline, and it's more than a sound bite. It is the supports that help us out of bed, enable us to go to work, enable us to get to hospital when we're sick and enable us to see our friends. That's what's taken away from us.

In my community, there is a saying. I think it originated with Lindsay Carter. It's an acronym: PLOD, people living off the disabled. That acronym was put into our community's lexicon to try to bring a little bit of dark comedy to a deeply insidious dynamic—one that we have lived with, decade after decade.

You see, in the years after the end of institutionalisation, when brave disabled people—and our allies and advocates—broke out of the state-run, state sponsored institutions to which we had been condemned, there were, as there still are, individuals who sought to establish a parasitic financial relationship with disabled people to take advantage of our moment of liberation for their own profit. Those people existed before the NDIS was ever created. They saw a community which was put at risk by a lack of safeguarding, put at risk by the very fact that they were dehumanised and discriminated against. They took advantage of that dynamic. They saw an opportunity to make a buck.

As the NDIS was created, the government failed to reckon with that reality. It failed to put in place the safeguards that would prevent those who would exploit and abuse disabled people from continuing to do so. That is a fact. The NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission has been, at times, over and over again, a failure of a regulator. There is work now being done to strengthen it, but it is coming far too little and far too late for far too many.

We live in a moment where large corporations are buying each other at unprecedented speed, monopolising the disability provision sector and trying to find ways to financially exploit and continue to abuse disabled people. This is a reality, and this must be addressed. But this inquiry—this attempt this evening—to establish a publicly funded vehicle in the name of disabled people, under the pretence of investigating this fraud and abuse, is, in fact, its own form of political fraud. Here we see politicians living off the disabled—politicians coming into this place claiming to be the allies of disabled people, when they have made political hay for years peddling some of the most vile and disgusting ableist commentary that this parliament has seen. You just heard from a member of parliament, Senator Hanson, who put forward the idea that the social supports required by disabled people to live our lives—the very things the NDIS funds—are ridiculous and absurd. She dismissed them entirely.

She is not alone in this view. In the last couple of weeks, I have been absolutely disgusted to read the reporting of the Australian Financial Review in relation to the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The articles that they have published over the years have built a drumbeat—a false perception of what the NDIS is, what it is for and what disabled people and our families rely upon it for. But this piece takes the cake, with a headline suggesting that $12 billion was spent on haircuts. Shame on the editor that allowed it to go to print! It normalised and validated some the most harmful and most hurtful narratives about disabled people and our families.

My very good friend, the actor, activist, author, taxpayer and proud disabled woman, Hannah Diviney finally found the words today to describe her feelings as a national broadsheet used its power and place in the media to frame the supports she relies on everyday as frivolous. She said:

Having to pay people to enable the freedom that so many take for granted and having to work around their schedules as much as your own is not laziness or rorting the system. It's the reality of disabled life. A reality intentionally warped and distorted by the media, politics and people in power.

Disabled people are not the enemy. We're not a problem to push aside. We're not a budget or bottom line to balance nor a political football.

So many people work tirelessly every day including myself, to shift archaic perceptions and ideas of who disabled people are and the potential we could have. Reporting and fearmongering like this only sets us backward.

Yes, it does. And contributions like the one we just heard from Senator Hanson have no place in the discussion of the National Disability Insurance Scheme in this Senate.

If you want to tackle fraud, let's tackle fraud. Let's take on the big providers. Let's break them up. Let's hold them to account. Let's have their CEOs out on national television, and, if they've done wrong, let them go to prison. But don't you dare suggest that there is an equivalence between the parasitic, systemic and decades-long dynamic by which those with power and money extract their profit from disabled minds and bodies and the legitimate needs of disabled people and our families to be provided with the basic supports, the basic needs and the ability to go out and be part of our communities, to make friends, to have a job and to raise a family. Don't you dare. You have no right to speak in this place on disability issues until you have cleaned up your act.

May I suggest you start by looking at some of the media and some of the animations depicting disabled people which you have so frequently used taxpayer money to put into the world. They are some of the most disgusting, ablest representations of disabled people I have ever seen with no place in a modern democratic discussion and no place in a civilised society.

Your leader, in her contribution to this debate, proved that after decades in politics she doesn't need an inquiry to understand the NDIS; she needs a search engine. The basics of the scheme, the basics of the reality of disabled lives and the basics of the issue are beyond her. It is so inappropriate to use this forum to legitimise the ablest belief that disabled people and our families are rorting the system, frivolously asking for things that are totally unreasonable. I would ask any MP proposing these ideas—

Sean Bell (NSW, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order—I think we've reached the point where Senator Steele-John is unfairly reflecting on the views of Senator Hanson, so I ask him to withdraw.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I absolutely will not, Senator Bell.

Steph Hodgins-May (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will seek advice from the clerk. Senator Bell, that is a debating point, so I will not uphold your point of order.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. If members in this place wish to know the reality of disabled life, then they should speak to disabled people. They should speak to those of us who cannot have our hair cut and who cannot have it washed without support, because that's what lives behind those headlines. Going out for social activities, as Senator Hanson says—can you imagine what it is like to have to try to coordinate and choreograph your time beyond your home into hour-sized chunks based on somebody else's availability and to put yourself at their power and control? You cannot. It is such a difficult thing, as a human being, to give your life and your power over to another person; to allow them to come into your world and support you in some of the most intimate, private and personal moments of your life; and to rely on them to have any connection to your community. You cannot imagine it unless you have experienced it.

It is a deep frustration to me that something as important as a National Disability Insurance Scheme and something as deeply serious as the financial exploitation of disabled people have been identified by One Nation as a political opportunity. You should reflect on that. We are not your political footballs to be kicked around. We are not yours to be turned into headlines and fundraising emails.

If you want to have a serious conversation about the NDIS, let us have that conversation, but I will not sit by and allow you to use this Senate to establish a forum for you to spend months on end validating the ableist belief that disabled people and our families are rorting this system when it is not true and is not supported by any scrap of evidence.

Anthony Chisholm (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government is determined to tackle fraud and noncompliance in the NDIS. We know that, where we see fraud, we too often see exploitation, abuse and neglect of people with disability.

Today, the minister for the NDIS wrote to the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme to propose an inquiry into the integrity of the NDIS. The joint standing committee is the appropriate parliamentary forum to conduct an inquiry of this kind and is established precisely for this purpose. The motion from the senator to establish a separate Senate inquiry in a committee not focused on the NDIS is not necessary. The government looks forward to constructive engagement across the parliament in an effort to improve the integrity of the NDIS.

Tyron Whitten (WA, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

One Nation remains extremely concerned about the ongoing fraud and misuse within the NDIS. The most vulnerable people are being ripped off. Fifty-two billion of taxpayers' money is going into the NDIS scheme. It's one of the biggest areas of government spending. Hardworking Australians are being ripped off also. We must find out what the true scale of waste and fraud is. Australians deserve to know.

This motion is not about undermining the NDIS; it is about protecting it. Every dollar lost to fraud is a dollar taken from someone who genuinely needs the support. Every instance of abuse erodes public trust, and every failure of oversight weakens the sustainability of the scheme for future generations. It is very clear the current safeguards are not working. It's very clear the compliance and auditing mechanisms are not fit for purpose in a scheme of this size.

We have seen individuals jailed for defrauding dozens of participants. We've seen millions of dollars siphoned off through organised schemes. We've seen providers billing for services never delivered and for people who have passed away. Authorities have already blocked tens of millions in suspicious claims, and hundreds of investigations are ongoing. That tells us one thing clearly: the problem is real. It is significant and it is growing.

A support worker was jailed for defrauding 90 NDIS participants out of about $190,000, using their personal details to submit false claims. A provider was sentenced for stealing $296,000 from vulnerable clients, including people with limited English, by billing for services never delivered. Providers have been reported for holding their clients hostage in homes around Australia. A major investigation in Sydney is targeting a $3½ million fraud scheme involving fake invoicing and suspected criminal networks. Earlier prosecutions include a $5.8 million fraud ring in New South Wales resulting in multiple jail sentences. Authorities have blocked $86 million in suspicious claims before payment. Criminal gangs have been linked to fraud attempts worth up to $50 million. This indicates that NDIS fraud is organised and industrial in scale.

One of my constituents, Mr Wayne Dewar, contacted my office to explain that he had asked the NDIS for psychological help for complex PTSD from being a first responder for 15 years. He was given a $288,000 plan to go fishing. He said, 'I wanted mental help from a psychologist. That's the only reason I applied. But, unfortunately, these funds are designated for other things and not for the mental health component I actually need. All I need is $38,000. I could save the taxpayer around $250,000.' I commend Mr Dewar for showing courage and speaking up about this.

One Nation has recommended this inquiry to shine a light on the financial impact of the waste, fraud and abuse on taxpayers and the impact of the diversion of resources away from Australians with genuine need. There need to be some serious legislative, administrative and governance reforms put in place to stop this rorting in its tracks. I think we can all agree that we would like to see our disabled community looked after but we do not want to see them ripped off. This inquiry would allow us to examine not only blatant fraud but also waste, overcharging and unnecessary services that drive up costs across the board.

We must also look at workforce qualifications. Participants deserve care from accountable, properly trained professionals. If standards are poorly enforced, both safety and value for money are compromised. Importantly, this motion recognises that responsibility does not sit with one group alone. It asks us to examine the roles of the National Disability Insurance Agency, providers, intermediaries and governance structures. Where are the gaps? Where is the system openly taken advantage of? Where must reform occur?

Then there is the question of public confidence. Australians overwhelmingly support the NDIS. One Nation supports the NDIS, but that support is not unconditional. It depends on trust—trust that funds are being used properly, that the system is fair and that those who exploit it will be held accountable. If that trust is eroded, the long-term viability of the scheme is placed in jeopardy. The inquiry also includes, in the terms of reference, the appropriate role of a royal commission into waste, fraud and abuse. Supporting this inquiry means accepting every allegation at face value. It means taking this fraud seriously enough to investigate it properly. It means standing up for the participants who rely on the scheme every day. It means standing up for the taxpayers who fund it. I commend this motion to the Senate.

Sean Bell (NSW, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Australian people deserve the truth about the waste, the fraud and the abuse that are running rampant in the NDIS. The NDIS is meant to be a lifeline for Australians with severe and permanent disability. It's meant to give people dignity, support and security. It is meant to ease the burden on families and carers, who carry enormous responsibility every single day. If we want that promise to mean anything, the scheme must be protected and properly policed to ensure that we have a sustainable NDIS for the future. That is why this debate matters. The NDIS needs to be strong, fair and sustainable. It needs to serve the people it was designed to help. To do that we need to protect it from waste, fraud and abuse. That is all One Nation is asking for tonight. All we're asking for is proper investigation because we all know there is waste, fraud and abuse, yet what we see is a failure to act.

Essentially what this motion says is that the parliament should properly investigate the scale of the problem, how it's happening, where the safeguards are failing and what reforms are needed to protect the integrity of the scheme. It is a very responsible motion, it is a very sensible motion and it is long overdue. Australians expect honesty, accountability and that the money that they have set aside for people with genuine, serious and permanent disability actually reaches the people it is meant to help. That is the core issue here. Every dollar that is wasted, every false claim that is paid, every inflated invoice, every service billed but not properly delivered, every sham arrangement, every weak safeguard and every failure of oversight takes resources away from Australians who genuinely rely on this scheme.

It's about helping families caring for children with profound disabilities, about parents caring for adult sons and daughters with very complex needs and about husbands and wives caring for loved ones after catastrophic injury or illness. Yet the waste and the fraud we are seeing is diminishing our capacity and their capacity to deal with these situations. It's about carers who are already exhausted, already stretched and already carrying burdens most Australians will never fully understand. These are the people who pay the highest price when the NDIS is rorted. They are the people who lose when the money is siphoned off by dodgy providers, dishonest operators and people who see the scheme as an easy source of cash. That is why this matter deserves the full attention of the Senate, and that is why it is an entirely appropriate place to raise it.

Again, what we have seen is a failure to investigate, not just by government but by the media and by others. It's so bad that it takes people on social media. I will highlight the recent work by Drew Pavlou and Peter Zogoulas, who carried out investigations involving NDIS providers. They more or less proved that there are cleaners who attend for a very short time, do very little work and then issue an invoice far beyond what could be reasonably justified. We saw that a lot of the research they've done and the report they put out resonated and travelled through the community. People watched, were shocked and were rightfully horrified. The public knows this is going on. They see the system is being gamed and they see that too much money is leaking out through waste, fraud and abuse, and it needs to be uncovered. We see it being uncovered, yet this parliament fails to act. That is why this referral is necessary.

This isn't about headlines. We're not here to attack every provider. We're not here to try to make life harder for participants. We want to bring the facts into the open because that is how we ensure this scheme can continue into the future in a way that helps the people who need it. We need to identify where the weak points are, to test whether safeguards are strong enough and to properly examine the role of providers, intermediaries, nominee arrangements and agency processes. We need to look at worker qualifications and standards to work out whether the enforcement frameworks are strong enough because, frankly, they don't appear to be strong enough. We need to uncover what changes are necessary to restore confidence and protect the future of the scheme. This is sensible, this is eminently reasonable and this is what a serious parliament would do.

The truth is that public confidence also matters. The NDIS depends not only on funding but also on trust. Australians will support a generous scheme for people in need, they will support a system that helps people live with dignity and they will support assistance for families and carers who need help, but they will not support a system that appears soft on rorting and weak on enforcement and is unwilling to ask hard questions. When trust begins to erode, the long-term future of the entire scheme is put at risk.

That is the danger. That is the very real danger we are facing. If the public comes to believe the NDIS is just a money pit, if they come to believe that billions can be wasted without consequence, if they come to believe that nobody is really in charge, then support for the scheme will weaken. If support for the scheme weakens, it's not the fraudsters who will suffer and it's not the people grifting off the system who will suffer, because they will go and find another loophole to exploit. The people who will suffer are those with a severe and permanent disability, who the scheme was designed to protect. The people who will suffer are their families and their carers. The people who will suffer are those who genuinely need the support. That is why One Nation is so intently focused on stopping the waste and the fraud we see in the NDIS. Stopping waste is not separate from protecting the NDIS; stopping waste is how we protect it.

Frankly, it's also a cost-of-living issue. Australians are being squeezed from every direction. They are paying more for groceries, more for power, more for rent, more for mortgages, more for fuel, more for insurance, more for the everyday basics of life. Families are being told to tighten their belts. It's starting to sound like the government is asking families to start rationing fuel. Yet, at a time when the government is demanding Australians be careful with their money, the government is not taking the same steps to protect taxpayer money.

At a time like this, Australians expect governments to treat money with care. They expect government to spend money wisely. They expect government to stamp out waste. They expect, when billions of taxpayer dollars are being spent, there will be proper scrutiny, proper safeguards and proper accountability. So when people see rorting in a scheme as large as the NDIS, they're right to be angry. It's a fair response, because they understand something very simple: when governments lose control of spending, everyday Australians end up paying the price, because they pass more budget pressures through to them. They will pay more for the debt. They will pay through the long-term consequences of a government refusing to deal with waste and inefficiency. Then, if that happens and the people lose trust, then the entire scheme itself is at risk of failure.

Australians work hard for their money, and they expect that money to be spent carefully, especially when it has been collected in the name of helping the most vulnerable people in the country, because they want to help people in genuine need. What they resent is waste and fraud. What they resent is incompetence. What they resent is seeing their compassion exploited by people who know how to game the system while the government does nothing. That is what makes this is so offensive to so many people.

Every dollar wasted in the NDIS, every dollar wasted on fraud, every dollar that goes to criminals, is a dollar that cannot go to where it should. It cannot go to a child who needs real support. It cannot go to a family already under immense pressure. It cannot go to a person with a severe disability trying to live with dignity and independence. It cannot go to the genuine participant who needs services, equipment, therapy or care. That is why the victims of fraud are not only the taxpayers who fund the scheme but the participants and the families who rely on it.

That is why the Senate and the other political parties in this place should not be afraid of this inquiry. If the safeguards are strong, let them be tested. If compliance systems are working, let that be shown. If the auditing and enforcement mechanisms are adequate, let the evidence be provided. But if there are gaps, then those gaps should be exposed and fixed. If there are bad actors, they should be identified and dealt with. If there are incentives in the system that reward overcharging, overservicing or weak accountability, then those incentives need to change. If the parliament needs to legislate to strengthen oversight and restore public confidence, then that is exactly what we should do, but we won't be able to do that unless we start properly investigating the problems that are rife in this system.

We are not here to condemn everyone involved in the sector, because we know there are many honest providers, there are many decent workers, there are many people delivering important services in good faith to vulnerable Australians who deeply need support. But a scheme like this cannot be run on good faith alone. It needs rules, it needs scrutiny, it needs standards, it needs enforcement. It needs these things to be put in place, guarded and protected. Above all, it needs this parliament to have the courage to admit there's a problem and deal with it.

This motion before us today is measured. It is reasonable. It is focused. It does not prejudice allegations. It does not accuse every provider. It simply says that, where there are serious and growing concerns about waste, fraud and abuse, the Senate should investigate them properly and report back. That is not controversial. In fact, anyone who truly believes in the NDIS should support this, because a strong NDIS is not one that ignores abuse; a strong NDIS is one that confronts the abuse, the waste and the fraud. A fair NDIS is not one that allows honest families and honest participants to be pushed aside while dishonest people cash in; a fair NDIS is one that makes sure the support goes where it's meant to go. A sustainable NDIS is not one that turns a blind eye to waste and hopes for the best; a sustainable NDIS is one that protects every dollar it can for the people who genuinely need the help.

That is the principle at stake here. Families caring for people with severe and permanent disability need confidence that the scheme will be here tomorrow. They need confidence that the money is going to care, not rorts. They need the confidence that this parliament understands what is at stake, because, if these problems are not corrected, the pressure will only grow. Confidence will fall, budget pressure will continue to build, and the greatest risk is that Australians who rely on the NDIS will be the ones left exposed when the system begins to fail. We must avoid this.

We should not have to choose between compassion and accountability; we should insist on both. We should insist on a scheme that is generous but disciplined, supportive but accountable and strong but sustainable, and that is what this referral is about—protecting the NDIS, protecting the taxpayer, protecting families and carers, and protecting Australians with severe and permanent disability who genuinely need these supports. So let us investigate this properly, let us expose what is going wrong, let us identify whether safeguards are failing, let us strengthen the system, let us restore confidence, and let us make sure the NDIS remains there for the people it was designed to help.

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This isn't about care—about whether or not people care about the disabled. This is about restoring sound governance. This is so that we can have disabled people getting good care. I will make One Nation's position very, very clear: disabled people deserve an insurance scheme for service—genuinely disabled people. We also want to stop exploitation of the disabled. That's right: stop exploitation.

I'm going to read from the terms of reference of Senator Hanson's motion:

That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 3 September 2026—

nothing wrong with that. I will read item (f):

(f) the impact of waste, fraud and abuse on NDIS participants, including the diversion of resources away from Australians with genuine need;

I'm going to read that again:

(f) the impact of waste, fraud and abuse on NDIS participants, including the diversion of resources away from Australians with genuine need.

I'll go back to the start of the terms of reference:

(a) the scale, nature and drivers of waste, fraud and abuse within the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS);

(b) the adequacy of existing safeguards, compliance, auditing, investigative and enforcement mechanisms to detect, prevent and respond to waste, fraud and abuse;

My responsibility, our responsibility, is to the people of Australia—to the taxpayers of Australia and to the disabled of Australia. The third item in the terms of reference is:

(c) qualifications of workers under the scheme;

We know it is being rorted at the moment, with people who are not qualified. The fourth one is:

(d) the role of National Disability Insurance Agency processes, registered and unregistered providers, intermediaries, participants, nominee arrangements and any other relevant entities or persons in contributing to or preventing waste, fraud and abuse;

What is wrong with any one of these? Nothing. Nothing is wrong. They're needed to protect the disabled. The fifth one is:

(e) the financial impact of waste, fraud and abuse on the sustainability of the NDIS and on taxpayers;

If we don't do it, the NDIS will be heading for the largest line item by far on the budget. It'll go out of existence under its own weight. I've already talked about (f). The sixth and seventh ones say:

(f) the impact of waste, fraud and abuse on NDIS participants, including the diversion of resources away from Australians with genuine need;

(g) distortionary impacts of increased wages and fees for service under the scheme on the labour market and other industries;

Nurses and aged care service people are being dragged out of their professions and being put into the NDIS because of the higher wages, the distorted increased wages. This is causing problems for veterans. It is causing problems for people in hospitals and doctors' clinics. Its causing problems for people in aged care. The eighth one is:

(h) the impact of the scheme on the housing market and construction costs;

That's impacting so many more Australians. There's a serious impact there. This is about all Australians. This is about understanding the problem, and Senator Hanson has shown yet again that she understands the guts of the problem in the whole context. Who can disagree with any of these? The ninth one is:

(i) the appropriate scope, powers and priorities of a Royal Commission into waste, fraud and abuse within the NDIS;

Senator Hanson said it herself just a few moments ago. She'd prefer a royal commission, but this is the first step. The tenth one is:

(j) any legislative, administrative or governance reforms required to strengthen oversight, restore public confidence and protect the integrity of the NDIS; and

And restore trust as Senators Bell and Whitten have just spoken about. And the last one is:

(k) any other related matters.

This is what it is all about. I can't see anything there that anyone would object to if they genuinely cared for the disabled, unless they're rattling the tin to make someone a demon. All of these work to restore trust, service, care and accountability.

We need to go back to the start of the NDIS scheme. It was a bastard. Julia Gillard as Prime Minister needed a pre-election headline, so she cobbled up the NDIS—minimal research, minimal thought, minimal consideration. Just get that bloody headline. Then the Liberals came into power and they saw a dog with no details. But instead of canning it and sending it back to the states, they saw the vulnerabilities and they tried to stop the rorts. As a result it was overcomplicated, arbitrary and crooks kept stealing. The needy kept getting no service as a result of it being a bastard at birth thanks to the Labor party. I personally think, as a side issue, that the NDIS is best done at the state level because it restores competitive federalism and accountability. I'm in favour of sending it back to the states.

As I said, it is out of control. As Senator Hanson, Senator Bell and Senator Whitten said, it is out of control. It will soon be the biggest line item on the budget. This is important not only for the disabled where it's extremely important but also for the taxpayers because of the rorting and the fraud of taxpayer money. The fraud is heading into the billions. In fact, I was told in Senate estimates in an answer to one of my questions that the fraud investigation is stunned with how big the impact of fraud is. It is so big that it will eventually curtail services for people needing genuine care. It will curtail nurses, aged-care workers and other carers. It's not just affecting disabled who need care. It's affecting people right across Australia, even the housing market.

Every Friday I try to do a livestream, and I start with heroes who have been active in our democracy. I want to name two heroes—Drew Pavlou and Pete Zogoulas. They have exposed the rorts. We knew about them. We've been raising them, but they started the community with the depth and breadth of the rorts. Ultimately, what happens when we have an abusive government—that's what this is about. This is an abusive government abusing taxpayer money. There's no government money. There's only taxpayer money. There's an abuse of taxpayer money because very few citizens stand up and hold the government accountable. So Drew Pavlou and Pete Zogoulas deserve commendation for being active participants in democracy.

For democracy to succeed, we need active participants in democracy. What has happened in this country is we've had it too easy, and many citizens have fallen into passive democracy. Then, that falls into apathy, and that falls into tyranny. We saw signs of that tyranny in the way the COVID mismanagement corralled people, stomped on people and suppressed people, making them do some hideous things. And we've seen signs of that apathy in the way the Labor government is wanting to bring in and follow through on the former prime minister Scott Morrison's misinformation and disinformation censorship bill. They destroyed free speech and many other freedoms and basic rights during the COVID response, and now they want to bring in censorship. That's the essence of human progress: when we have passive democracy, it leads to apathy, and then it leads to tyranny, which, as I've just given you some examples, is coming in to this country. Eventually people get sick of the tyranny and they rise up, and we have anarchy. That's the cycle throughout history: active democracy becomes passive democracy becomes apathy becomes tyranny becomes anarchy. There's a way to avoid that, which is by having more citizens like Drew Pavlou and Pete Zogoulas.

We need an inquiry to get the facts. The Greens, being the Greens, introduced talk of an enemy and division. Where's the enemy? Can you see the enemy, Senator Bell? Where's the enemy? Why do they do this? They do it because they want to create victims and make those people dependent, and that's bloody cruel. Victims are in a permanent state of dependence. That's no way to go through life. I do not see Senator Steele-John as someone in a wheelchair. I respect his ability. I see him as an Australian with plenty to contribute. I don't agree with much of what he says, but at least he gives that other view. But shame on the Greens for yet again creating victimhood and dependence. It's cruel.

We need to clean up the NDIS for the improvement of services to the disabled. Those who really care will support this motion. And the Senate, as Senator Bell has said, is an entirely appropriate place to have this inquiry. The Senate, after all, is the house of review. Let me be very clear: One Nation wants to stop exploitation of the disabled. It wants to give the disabled confidence that they'll be getting good service, and to do that we need to restore sound responsible governance.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question is that the motion moved by Senator Hanson be agreed to. A division is required. As it is after 6.30, the division will be deferred until a later time. The debate is adjourned accordingly.