Fatima Payman (WA, Australia's Voice) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Senator Ayres. This morning, the ABC reported that social media posts about events that never took place involving myself, Senator Hanson, the Prime Minister and other public figures were being created by foreign actors using AI to drive engagement and generate revenue. At a time when AI is being used more and more as a tool to divide and misinform, the government is backing away from regulation. The decision to abandon the AI advisory body is just one example of this. Minister, at a time when AI is causing harm without consequence, why have you abandoned the AI advisory board after investing $200,000 in a 15-month recruitment process?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The kind of conduct that you refer to—misinformation and disinformation spread often by extremist elements in Australia but sometimes originating from overseas and sometimes supercharged by the kinds of technologies that you refer to—is something, of course, that we all should fight against and that we all should be determined to oppose, because it's corrosive, in democratic terms, when people are misrepresented.

On the approach that the government has taken in relation to artificial intelligence, there are some elements of that question, of course, that relate to social media and to misinformation and disinformation. But, in relation to the artificial intelligence aspect, the approach the government is taking was set out in the national artificial intelligence plan, which I released some months ago. The first two components of that are about capturing the economic advantage here for strategic reasons as much as economic reasons and about making sure we spread the benefits through the community. The third component, on establishing the artificial intelligence safety institute, is the approach that this government is taking to regulation in relation to artificial intelligence.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Payman?

Fatima Payman (WA, Australia's Voice) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of relevance, I specifically asked about the AI advisory body. With the 30 seconds left, could you please redirect the minister?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There was also a preamble to that question. The minister is being relevant to your question.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We provided $29.9 million in funding to establish the institute. Existing laws, including those on workplace safety, consumer protection, privacy and copyright apply to artificial intelligence right now. They are enforced by strong regulatory agencies, and our approach is to task and build the capability of those agencies so they do that work in an uninterrupted and effective way.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Payman, first supplementary?

Fatima Payman (WA, Australia's Voice) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, it's not just on social media that AI threatens to disrupt the existing order. In our schools, in our universities, at the GPs and in the office, AI has changed how we work and learn. Since the disappointing removal of former minister Husic, the government has indicated it will take a light-touch approach to regulation. Why has the government discarded the work of Mr Husic on a standalone AI act?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't think we've used that language, 'light touch', to describe our approach. It's an effective regulatory approach. And in each of the theatres of activity that you've described there are important benefits that artificial intelligence can offer to Australians—in health terms and in productivity terms. Let's say you wanted to produce 35,000 questions on notice and you had, say, four staff to do that work. And say you thought it was going to take about 30 minutes for each question on notice. I'm more a maths kind of guy than a maths kind of guy, but my maths says that if you could do 304 questions on notice every week, it would take your office 460 weeks to produce that work, but, if you used artificial intelligence to produce 35 questions on notice at home or at work— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Payman, second supplementary?

Fatima Payman (WA, Australia's Voice) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you're doing a great job dodging my questions; let's hope you can answer this one. Australians know that influence is power in this place, and industry giants have access to ministers. They present them with talking points and influence the decision-making of executive government. Minister, since you became the Minister for Industry and Innovation last year, on how many occasions have you met with representatives of OpenAI, Anthropic and other AI companies?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll say a couple of things on that. If I can assist in terms of meetings, I'd be very happy to. It's my approach to meet regularly with industry, whether it's in the smelter sector, whether it's in the artificial intelligence sector or wherever it is. My office is not a place where we hide from industry. But the implication underlying your question, I think, is utterly offensive. Just because we disagree about the approach that we take—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Nampijinpa Price?

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price (NT, Country Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order. The minister never directs his answers through you, Chair.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Nampijinpa Price. I remind the minister to direct his answers to me.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just because those of us in this place disagree—there's an idea that there's not room for disagreement and that people can't form different views about what is in the national interest here. I happen to think that it's in the national interest to make sure that we secure as much of the technology stack here in Australia and that it's run by Australians in our national interest— (Time expired)