Senate debates
Wednesday, 4 March 2026
Questions without Notice: Take Note of Answers
Economy, Wages and Salaries
3:07 pm
Claire Chandler (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I move:
That the Senate note of the answers given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to questions without notice asked by me and Senator Hume on the economy and wages.
I would have thought that today with the national accounts data being released that this government would have been prepared to come into this chamber and answer the questions that Australians have on their minds, because Australians know that they are not better off now than they were four years ago when this government came to power. They know that they are struggling to pay the bills. They know that the price of everything is going up and their ability to pay for everything is not going up consistently with that.
We heard in the national accounts data today that public sector demand is growing more than twice as fast as private sector demand. That is a very troubling statistic, because that means that this government is merely fuelling its inflation fire by pouring debt petrol on that fire. To come in here today as the new shadow minister for finance and ask questions of the government about this issue and receive the complete lack of response that I did—the complete equivocation, the constant pivoting to talk about what might have happened when other governments were around and the failure to engage with the substance of the question specifically—is incredibly disappointing. I'm sure Australians listening along at home were disappointed, like me, by the responses that they heard from Labor ministers.
We know that under Labor living standards have declined. Australia has had the biggest fall in living standards, in terms of household disposable incomes, in the developed world. We know that Australians have less purchasing power today than they did four years ago. We are facing higher inflation and higher interest rates. Labor's reckless spending is keeping inflation higher for longer. What I and Australians want to see from this government is a plan to tackle that inflation, to get the economy back under control and to get the budget back under control.
It seems completely lost on this government that they are sitting on a trillion dollars worth of government debt. They will make many comments about where this debt came from. They'll talk about the pandemic. We know they were unprecedented times that required unprecedented levels of government spending; we recognise that. But this government came into power in 2022. They have had four years, and they have gone nowhere near even trying to tackle that government debt. And let's not forget that during the pandemic it was the Labor opposition that wanted to spend an awful lot more money to deal with the problem than the coalition government did, so they really don't have a leg to stand on. But they've been in power for four years now, and they have no plan to get that trillion-dollar debt bomb under control.
As someone who considers herself still, sort of, a young Australian, I find it disappointing, for me and my generation and those Australians younger than me who are going to be left paying the bill on this trillion-dollar debt bomb, to hear that this government has no plan to deal with it, has no plan to deal with the inflationary pressures we're seeing throughout the economy. It has no plan to get its government spending under control, which we know is fuelling inflation. Their government spending is making life more difficult for Australians. It is making life more expensive for Australians. Australians are sitting at home, looking over their household budgets, thinking: 'How am I going to make ends meet this week? How am I going to deal with the fact that insurance is up by 39 per cent, energy costs are up by 38 per cent, rents are up by 22 per cent, the cost of health care is up by 18 per cent, education is up by 17 per cent and food is up by 16 per cent?' Everything keeps going up and up, and they look at the household budget and think: 'How am I going to deal with this? I'm going to have to rein in spending.' That's what Australians will have to do. They will have to make sacrifices.
But this government shows zero inclination to make their own sacrifices. It shows zero inclination to look at its budget and say: 'Hey, where can we start trimming a bit? Where can we start trying to get the trillion-dollar debt bomb under control?' That is going to be a millstone around this government's neck. I know the Treasurer is talking a big game, when it comes to the budget that he will be handing down in May, about trying to get government spending under control. But the proof is going to be in the pudding. I and the rest of the shadow economic team are going to be looking very closely to see exactly what plan Jim Chalmers has to get the debt bomb under control, because, frankly, I think that plan is non-existent.
3:12 pm
Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I know quite often those on the other side don't listen to the answers to the questions they put to our ministers, so I just want to remind you, when you come in and manipulate the information and figures to suit your own political ends: in this data today, Senator Gallagher said, 'we have seen the strongest economic growth across the economy—broad-based growth as explained by the ABS for the strongest growth in three years'. They're actually the facts. But I think what the Australian people very much understand about those opposite is that what they say to them in the community and what they do in here are often very different things.
It is in your political playbook to ask questions about the debt, but you never actually accept the debt you left. You never accept the high inflation when you left office. The responsibility of a good opposition is to learn from the mistakes they made when they were in government, but you haven't learnt anything. If you had in fact learnt anything from the worst defeat of the Liberal Party's history at the last election—if you had learnt anything at all during that time about running the economy, about being there for the Australian people—you would not have rewarded the leaders of that election campaign strategy, that economic strategy, who are now the leaders of your party. That says to me and to the Australian community that you haven't learnt anything.
In the almost 10 years you were in government, how many surpluses were there? I can't remember how many surpluses you delivered.
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It was zero!
Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Zero! You've come in here and reminded everyone about these four great years of a Labor government that's actually providing for the Australian people. How many surpluses in these four years have the Treasurer and this government delivered? There's no response from those over there. Was it one?
Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Three! Three surpluses were delivered by this Labor government. This was at the same time as we were paying down the debt that you left behind.
When we talk about the cost of living—which is an important issue that we are working on every single day—let's just remind those in the gallery, those who are listening and those who will read the transcripts that those opposite went to the last election promising to increase taxes. What did they do in this chamber when we put through the legislation for each of our tax cuts for Australian workers so that Australian workers could actually keep more of the money that they earn? They voted against it. They talk about our investment into Medicare to provide real cost-of-living benefits for the Australian community. Australians can go and see a GP or they can get urgent care at our urgent care clinics. We've reduced the cost of medication so that mums, in particular, don't have to say, 'I can't afford to fill my script, because my kids need medicine more than I do.' We have lowered that. They're the real measures of a government that understands what's happening in the community.
When we talk about Australian workers, what did you do when we passed legislation to increase the pay of some of Australia's lowest paid workers—aged-care workers? You came in here bleating about aged care because you wanted to make political points. What did you do when we wanted to support early childhood educators? What did you do with those two pieces of legislation? You voted against them because you're all very hypocritical in what you do and say.
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Polley, please resume your seat. Senator Henderson, on a point of order?
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I have a point of order. I did hold off for quite some time, but the senator is continually referring to 'you'. I ask that you direct her to direct her comments through the chair.
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Polley, you should direct your comments through the chair.
Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
You always know when you're actually talking about—
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Polley, don't stand up and ignore what I've asked you to do.
Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Sorry, Deputy President. I didn't mean to do that. The opposition, through you, Chair, won't accept that what they did when they were in government was not actually appreciated by the Australian people. The Australian people make their judgements based not on what you say but on what you do and what you plan to do. (Time expired)
3:18 pm
Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The question we have to ask is: why is the government spending so much time talking about the opposition? They're the government. They've been the government for the last four years, and yet those people listening to question time would have heard repeated references to the opposition, to our leadership, and to our election review, for goodness' sake.
What is the Labor government doing spending time talking about the election review undertaken by the Liberal Party? It's extraordinary. The people in my region, greater Ipswich in South-East Queensland, are the ones going to food banks for the first time in their lives. Even people with jobs are going because they can't afford to pay their mortgages. They can't afford to pay their rent. They can't afford to pay their electricity bills. They can't afford their groceries, let alone provide for their children to engage in sporting activities and cultural activities. That's what the government should be focused on. They shouldn't be focused on the leadership of the opposition or, for goodness' sake, an election review undertaken by the Liberal Party of Australia. It's just absolutely absurd. I think it says everything you need to know.
The second point I'll make is, continually, they refer to the level of debt during the height of a global pandemic. I was proud of how the coalition government responded to the COVID-19 pandemic. In my region, there were small businesses on their knees. There were business owners who were having sleepless nights pondering how they were going to keep their employees on. Under Josh Frydenberg, our then treasurer, we introduced JobKeeper and took that pressure off businesses small, medium-sized and large. It lifted that pressure. Do people remember? I remember seeing the photographs of people turning up at Centrelink offices around the country—the queues going around the corner—and the coalition government acted. We acted. Sure, there was an economic consequence in terms of the debt, but that was something we had to face. That was the right thing to do, and we make no apologies for that. That was in the national interest. I hate to think of the consequences there would have been had we not undertaken that action. That was the fit and proper thing to do in those circumstances.
The government needs to spend less time talking about the opposition and more time talking about the Australian people. One of the biggest issues facing the Australian economy at the moment is inflation, and I want to read to you from a book called Basic Economics, by Thomas Sowell, on inflation:
Inflation is in effect a hidden tax. The money that people have saved is robbed of part of its purchasing power …
What do we know about inflation? Inflation in this country is now running at 3.8 per cent. What does that mean? The real wages of Australians today are 2.1 per cent lower than on the day Labor took office. The purchasing power in Australians' pockets is 2.1 per cent lower today than it was four years ago. It's lower than in Poland, Portugal, Hungary, Chile, Spain, the United States, Denmark et cetera. That inflation figure, which is eating into the purchasing power of every single Australian family, is what the government should be focused on.
They shouldn't be talking about the opposition. The Australian people don't want senators in this place talking about themselves and issues inside the Canberra bubble for a few laughs and a few gags. They want us focused on the issues of concern to them, and those are inflation, high interest rates and how they're going to make ends meet. That's the expectation of the Australian people.
Times are tough out there. After nearly four years of Labor, insurance is up 39 per cent, energy is up 38 per cent, rent is up 22 per cent, health care is up 18 per cent, education is up 17 per cent and food is up 16 per cent. Those are the facts, and the focus of the Australian Labor Party should be on the Australian people, not on the internal machinations of the opposition. The focus of the Labor government should be on the Australian people.
3:23 pm
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
For those who are watching along in the gallery and those who might be listening at home, this is the part of the day where, after question time, the opposition determines what topics they want us to discuss. I'm delighted that we're able to talk today about what's going on with matters economic. This is Wednesday, we've been back for two days already, and this is the first set of questions that the opposition has decided to ask about the economy and what might be happening for Australians. I do want to congratulate the two women in these portfolios who asked the questions. It's an honour to serve your nation as a person on the frontbench in a shadow capacity. I recall my period of time doing that very happily, so I want to congratulate Senator Chandler and Senator Hume.
But, in my assessment, the two things they asked that were really important for people to understand were questions about real wages and about the public-private spend. Senator Gallagher, in her response, made it very, very clear that, unlike the opposition, who were in government for 10 years and who left this country with an interest rate at 6.1 per cent, we have responsibly managed the economy and taken on the challenge of turning that economy around, like turning around the Queen Mary, to make it work again for Australians, and real wages have been growing.
Senator Scarr made a point about the challenge that we, like every nation around the world, face in regard to dealing with the consequences of the COVID reality that hit every country across the globe. He said increasing spending to cover that period of time was 'the right thing to do'. Labor believes that you need to spend on the right things, and our version of what is right is vastly different from that of those on the other side, and it has become even clearer in this last little period since we've had the love-in and the Liberal and National parties have kissed and made up—again, for the second time. I predict it's going to be like a MAFS breakdown very soon, though. Since they got in, they have given us a few signals that they don't agree at all with many of the challenges that we are facing and with our responses to the challenges that the Australian people are telling us matter to them.
I will just say that, in spending Australian taxpayer dollars for Australians, our investment goes to things like veterans' affairs. It's no good showing up on Anzac Day with your best clobber on and putting a wreath down when you're not looking veterans themselves. Veterans aren't something that belong in a movie or in our memory from history. Veterans need attention from us right now. So let me tell you about one of the public spending things that they want us to cut. They want us to cut public spending on Medicare and veterans.
This was the situation in regard to the way they spent money, the way they didn't handle debt and the way they selected what money would be spent on. The Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide's interim report said it had serious concerns about a massive claims backlog. That's what we inherited from the Liberal and National parties when we got to government.
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order! Senator Henderson.
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
There were 42,000 veterans—
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Forty-two thousand veterans—
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
in mid-May of 2022 under Mr Morrison, and we knew that they weren't getting attention.
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order! Senator O'Neill, you have your leader on her feet. Senator Wong?
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Point of order—
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
No, Senator Henderson!
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I think, actually, the duty minister is permitted to sit here and be called. A point of order, Chair: you did call Senator Henderson three times, and she ignored you. My suggestion is that Senator O'Neill sits down until Senator Henderson is able to comply with your request.
Slade Brockman (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you for your assistance, Senator Wong. I did call Senator Henderson to order. Senator Henderson, interjections are always disorderly. Senator O'Neill, you have the call.
Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I am used to ignoring a lot of noise that comes from that side, because my focus, like the government's, is razor-sharp on serving the Australian people, and no-one deserves our respect and attention more than those veterans who've served our nation and the cause of democracy. Forty-two thousand of them were left hanging under the Liberal and National parties, and they say they want to cut funding. When they were there and they cut spending, we ended up with that backlog.
As of 31 January 2024, the number of claims that were yet to be allocated had fallen from 42,000 to 3,697. That is a good investment of Australian taxpayers' dollars. It is about doing the right thing, and it's just one policy area that Labor is attending to that will increase, and will continue to increase, in the national interest.
3:28 pm
Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The coalition wants Australia to be a place of opportunity, aspiration, freedom and safety—an Australia where life is affordable, where young Australians can buy a home, where you can raise a family because you have confidence in the future and where getting a fair go is the reality of the Australian experience, not a dream. To do this, the coalition will fight against Labor's bad taxes—Labor's taxes on your house, taxes on superannuation and taxes on your children's future. The coalition will require the government to live within its means. If Australian households have to live within their means, why shouldn't the government have to live within its means? The coalition will remove Labor's carbon taxes, which are pushing up the cost of food, pushing up the cost of cars and pushing up the cost of housing.
Under Labor, living standards in Australia have gone backwards. Under Labor, we have seen the largest collapse in living standards in the developed world. Under Labor, inflation remains out of control, driving up interest rates and hurting Australian families with mortgages. Under Labor, government spending is at the highest level in 40 years and Australia is on track to tip into $1 trillion worth of debt—a debt that is a tax on the next generation of Australians, a tax that the next generation of Australians will be forced to pay.
And Labor says that it's tackling inflation. Well, Labor is failing Australian households when it comes to inflation. Just today, we had released the national accounts for our country. The national accounts are like a health check on the economy, and the national accounts say that the Australian economy is sick. On a per capita basis, the Australian economy remains poorer than in March 2022, when Labor was elected. The national accounts demonstrate that this results in Australia experiencing the largest collapse in living standards in the developed world. They reveal that, according to the latest figures from the OECD, Australia has expressed the largest collapse in living standards amongst all developed countries and that Australia has made no progress in improving living standards against the OECD average, remaining down 10 percentage points. And Labor likes to talk a lot about wages. Well, let's hear the truth about wages. Real wages are more than two per cent lower today than when Labor took office and are falling as I speak. The RBA expects real wages to continue to fall all year, all through to December 2026.
What is the consequence of Labor's failing economic management? It means that, in times of crisis, the economy is weaker, the economy can't respond and Australian families and businesses pay a high price. That is exactly what we're experiencing and living through just this week. Labor's poor economic management has left Australia exposed to international crises. Even before the Iran conflict, inflation and interest rates were rising and forecast to rise further. Whatever impact the Iran crisis may have on the Australian economy and on Australian households, it will be compounded. That economic cost, that economic catastrophe, will be compounded because Labor has failed over the last four years to get the economy right.
And Labor has been warned. The RBA has regularly warned that Australia may continue to suffer from high inflation and high interest rates if it's not suitably prepared for the possibility of growing geopolitical risks and international crises like the one we have seen.
The health of the Australian economy is sick. Australian households are now being forced to pay a very high price for that, and the next generation of Australians will be forced to live with higher taxes as a result of increasing national debt.
Question agreed to.