David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister Wong. Minister, we know that Pine Gap is a critical part of US global war-making, including its attacks on Iranian schools and hospitals in the last 48 hours. So why won't your government clearly prohibit intelligence gathered at Pine Gap by the US military from being used in the bombing of Iran, and why won't you be honest with the Australian people about the reality of this?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm very happy to be honest with the Australian people about the reality, which is what I always seek to do. I would make this point: I'm asked about facilities and so forth; I have it made clear that I've been asked about that publicly and I have responded, and I refer you to that answer. A point I would make is that being honest about it might include a question on the attack on Dubai airport by Iran. Being honest about it might include an Iranian drone strike attack on the Royal Air Force base, the UK base, in Cyprus.

Given your interjection before, sir, you might say that's okay because it's a base. Well, these are not countries—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Two things. Firstly, what the minister said is false.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, stop.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order! I have a point of order, if you'll hear it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, resume your seat. When you stand, and I've drawn this to your attention before, you indicate to me that you are seeking a point of order. You didn't do that. You started on: 'I have two points to make.' I have no idea what those points are. So I remind you once again, Senator Shoebridge, when you stand, indicate that you are seeking a point of order. You've made it clear to me now that you are seeking a point of order, so please put your point of order.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The first is that the minister is falsely asserting that I made an interjection. She knows it's false. And the second—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, that is not a point of order.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

if you will hear it. To mislead the chamber is unparliamentary.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, resume your seat. Those are debating points not points of point of order. Senator Shoebridge, I've ruled that they are not points of order. If you have another point of order, please make it, but they're not to be debating points, and you know to difference.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is not even pretending, in the second part of her so-called answer, to respond to the question, and you know that, and we all heard her.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. Senator Ayres.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask Senator Shoebridge to withdraw that. That was contemptuous of you in your role as the chair. It was deeply sarcastic, deeply offensive. He ought to know better, and there's enough of the bloviating from him. He ought to withdraw it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Ayres. Senator Allman-Payne?

Penny Allman-Payne (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: Senator Shoebridge just got pulled up for not indicating at the start of his statement that he had a point of order. At no point did you ask Senator Ayres to do the same.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres rose, which is the right of any senator in this place, to object to the language used in Senator Shoebridge's response to me, and he asked for it to be withdrawn. So he was seeking a withdrawal, not a point of order. I would also remind—Senator Shoebridge.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What on earth—point of order.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, resume your seat.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. What on earth am I being asked to withdraw? Please explain.

Senator Shoebridge, I did find your response to me, in the last sentence you made, offensive. I haven't asked you to withdraw, but I would ask you to reflect on how you respond to me. I have ruled your points of order out of line; they're not points of order. I'll ask Minister Wong to continue her response.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't know if you want me to deal with this, because you've ruled on the point of order already, President, but I've been accused by the senator of saying something that was incorrect. When I spoke about an attack on the bases, I thought I heard you say, 'It's a base.' Now, if that's—

An honourable senator interjecting

Then it must have been another one of the Greens, because it was one of you. It was not one of us and it was not one of them. My point is you have to be consistent, and the problem for the Australian Greens is they have one narrative. They simply want to weaponise a narrative and campaign around being against the United States but they're not prepared to stand up to an authoritarian brutal regime which has killed its own people in order to stay in power. You don't hear the Greens political party talking about Iran, even though their own members have spoken about this. Publicly, former Greens members—

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How did toppling Saddam Hussein go?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Whish-Wilson.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

have spoken about the fact the Greens have not wanted to talk about the situation in Iran. That's been shown today.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, this is the second time in question time I specifically referred to you. As I said earlier, these are difficult questions and they are difficult answers. I have asked senators to be respectful of that and to listen in silence and, Senator Whish-Wilson, that includes you. If you wish to make a contribution, make it some other time. Senator Shoebridge, a first supplementary?

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, I know you don't want to talk about Donald Trump. I know you don't want to talk about Benjamin Netanyahu. But the question the Australian public are asking is: What is the red line? What do the US and Israel have to do before Australia opposes Trump's and Netanyahu's war mongering? How many more hospitals have to be bombed? How many more schools have to be destroyed before Labor takes a stand for peace and international law?

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What about the tens of thousands of people who have died?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Ciccone.

Order! Senator Ciccone.

Order! Senator Ciccone, I called you three times—three times—and you completely ignored me.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think you have seen, certainly in relation to Prime Minister Netanyahu, that we have been very prepared to say things with which he does not agree when we thought that was necessary. That's the first point. The second point I would make is this: the Greens political party seems to rub out what this regime has engaged in for 40 years.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When the Senate comes to order, Senator Hanson-Young.

Order! Senator Hanson-Young, again, I called you more than once. You are out of order and disrespectful. You're not in a debate with me.

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, you'd lose.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hanson-Young, withdraw that.

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on a point of order. For once, can you hold this minister to direct relevance. My question was about the United States and Israel, Donald Trump and Netanyahu, and she refuses to speak about any of them.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just the same, I would seek—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, I will ask: why you are on your feet?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek that he withdraw the 'for once', which is an assault on your operation as the chair here—that kind of sarcastic, over and over again.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, thank you. I'm not going to ask the senator to withdraw. I have asked the senator to be mindful of the tone and of what he says. The minister is being relevant to your question, Senator Shoebridge. Minister, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Through you, President, no amount of sarcasm and condescension can divert from the fact, Senator Shoebridge—clearly, he takes point of order but doesn't want to hear me. Would you like me to—

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He never wants to hear anyone.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You never actually want to hear anyone, Senator Shoebridge; you want to listen to yourself. But what I would say is you seem to ignore the fact I opened my answer with a direct response. The problem is you continue to assert things which are not true because of your own narrative.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, a second supplementary?

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you refuse to pass judgement as to whether or not this war by the US and Israel is in breach of international law yet you have repeatedly and correctly called out the Russian attack in Ukraine as being in breach of international law. Why do you show no courage when the people breaching the international law are Donald Trump and Netanyahu? Why is it so regime-specific?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator, I have responded on this publicly at multiple press conferences and in multiple interviews. You know the position we have taken. We have said very clearly that the issue about compliance with international law is for Israel and the US to outline. We have said we did not participate in the strikes. We have also said we support action to ensure that Iran does not possess a nuclear capability. We have said that we stand with the brave people of Iran in their struggle against oppression. And I would again say to the Australian Greens: I know you have a political narrative that you want to prosecute, but for once think of the people of Iran at some point in your discussion.