Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pursuant to contingent notice, I move:

That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to allow a motion relating to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide to be moved immediately and determined without amendment.

Anthony Chisholm (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just speaking on this issue. We won't stand in the way of this suspension. We're happy to facilitate it. The issue is obviously a really important one for this government and one that Minister Keogh and the government have been passionate about delivering on, and the sentiment in Senator Lambie's motion is a very important one. But our preference is always for these matters to be dealt with in an orderly way, rather than disrupting government business, so we would have preferred that Senator Lambie had engaged with us and found a more appropriate part of the day for this to be debated. But, having said that, we recognise Senator Lambie's determination and passion about this, so we're happy for this to proceed now.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Liberal Party will be supporting the motion to suspend the standing orders. One of the things I would say is that suspending standing orders, as we know, is not something this chamber should do lightly. But, when you are presented with a motion such as this, this is the opportune time to say that we should deviate from the business that we had ahead of us and look at this motion in detail. When an issue is urgent like this one is, when delay carries real consequences and when the Senate does have a responsibility to act rather than defer, standing orders must give way. Senator Lambie, this is one of those opportunities. We should suspend the current business of the Senate. As I said, the Liberal Party will indeed support Senator Lambie's motion.

Question agreed to.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That a motion relating to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide be moved immediately and that the question be put after 30 minutes of debate, allowing five minutes per speaker.

Question agreed to.

I move:

That the Senate notes:

(a) the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide found the veteran healthcare system is fragmented, difficult to navigate and characterised by poor continuity of care which increase the likelihood of veteran suicide.

(b) there is an urgent need to overhaul the veteran healthcare system to properly compensate providers, ensure the Department of Veterans' Affairs (DVA) fee schedules should at least match those of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, eliminate unnecessary administrative complexity to ensure long-term sustainability and deliver timely, appropriate and effective healthcare outcomes for veterans;

(c) it is essential claims are processed expeditiously, as prolonged delays cause further damage, undermines veterans' financial security, compounds stress and directly harms their health and wellbeing;

(d) the ongoing shortage of accessible psychiatric hospital beds for veterans is unacceptable, forcing vulnerable veterans to go without the timely and life-saving care they desperately require;

(e) the persistent delays, confusion and distress caused by DVA policies and administrative failures, including preferential provider arrangements that restrict choice, disrupt long-term therapeutic relationships and retraumatise veterans, cannot continue; and

(f) calls on the government to immediately implement the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide recommendations, recognising that further delay is placing veterans' lives at serious risk.

The Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide found that the veteran healthcare system is still quite broken. Actually, the commissioners at the time said it was 'fragmented', but I'm saying that it's still quite broken. It's extremely chunky, and it's rigid. We still have veterans having to fight through a sandstorm of bureaucracy to get the help they need, especially if that is help for their mental health. Veterans often struggle to find GPs and specialists who understand the military culture. We used to have these professionals inside Defence. You've got to start picking your game up. You are slacking. What's new for Defence? Get those psychiatrists back on the inside. You are shameful. As per usual, you got the biggest asset we had and you reduced it. Honestly, Defence, you're your own worst enemy.

The royal commission also said it is 'difficult to navigate'. For a lot of them, it's still bloody impossible. They also found that there was 'poor continuity of care', which contributes to suicide risk, and there is. And I tell you what: don't ask for a liaison officer in any of our public hospitals around Australia. I don't know what's happened to the veterans liaison officers in public hospitals, but it seems I'm doing their job as well. It's not good enough. The commissioner's highlighted poor funding, poor data sharing and a lot of informed, tailored care. I've been waiting for data from the Department of Veterans' Affairs for two months. It is sensitive data, and I need it. There is no excuse. That is your only warning today. Otherwise, I'm going to have to make the minister come in here and have a few words about what is going on in that department. Do not make me do that.

It's been well over a year since the commissioners handed down their report, and the government released its response in December 2024. You've now had nearly 14 months. I've given both the department and the minister time. Veterans and advocates have been contacting me for weeks now. The system is still riddled with issues that are once again causing confusion, anxiety and frustration for veterans, their advocates and their doctors. My Christmas break was spent finding psych beds for four veterans who were extremely fragile, because they couldn't get through to DVA.

Where's your helpline? It's simple. They pay the price at Christmas time. Why would you not have more beds available? Why am I ringing wards for them to tell me that there's a three-week wait? Seriously, it got to a point where I was going to fly them down to my house. How embarrassing would that have been for the department? That's your last warning. Next time, I am flying them down. I will fly them down, and it will be a media crap-storm. I swear to God! Use your brains. You had a terrorist attack, and they hate Christmas. What do you think that's doing to them? Jesus—get out there with your boots on and start talking to them. Stop sitting at those little tables with those service organisations and what you think are 'experts'. This is where your problem is. It always has been.

I do, however, want to shout out to all those amazing healthcare workers who worked with me to get this help for these veterans over Christmas. I have to say I want to thank Spencer Clinic in my own backyard, who had a veteran up there that was in dire straits. That veteran, unfortunately, had to be put in a room. He's a former Navy veteran. You can imagine the abuse he put up with in the Navy and over 12 years of service, now a fireman. He was put into a room with no windows. You can imagine what that does to a Navy veteran that has PTSD in that state. Honestly, our public system is not for veterans. It is not, when it comes to their mental health. They are not equipped for it. As much as they're trying, when I'm getting a call to come up there and settle that veteran down—and I don't have a problem with that—it just goes to show they cannot go in the public system. Our public system is struggling to hold its own in mental health. So you need to look after the veterans, and you need to take that off public health, because it's not fair on the civilians in that hospital with our veterans. It's not fair when they're that gone and they cannot get help. That psychiatrist goes, 'I just don't know what to do; I'm not trained in helping these veterans.' That's fine; you can get a hold of me. But this is not the way it should be, and it's really starting to put the pressure on our health system. And, when you're Tasmanian and you have not a very good one—we don't have beds as it is—putting them in that public system sends them off their heads. It has got to stop. You are not getting the job done quick enough, DVA. We're going back to, 'Hello, I don't want to answer your questions.' We are not going back to this. We're just not. You're bloody halfway there. Keep persisting and keep moving quicker. No more of the hiding. Enough.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition, as I said, will be supporting the motion that Senator Lambie has put forward. In doing so, I do it with a very, very clear message: Australia's obligation to our veterans is not optional; it is enduring, and it must be matched by systems that work when people need them the most. The reason that we live in what I like to continue to say is the luckiest country in the world is our veterans. It is because of the people who fought for this country. It is because of the people who died for this country. And we owe them a debt. We owe them a huge debt. Every morning when I wake up, I say thank you. 'Thank you, Lord, for giving me the opportunity to live in the great country of Australia.' I am someone who, throughout her life, starting when I was 23, has had the opportunity to now visit Gallipoli three times. When you stand in those trenches, it dawns on you (a) what those people were going through, fighting for the freedoms that we have today, and (b) if it were not for the people who were prepared to fight for this country, to die for this country, to fight for the freedoms that we have in Australia, quite frankly, we would not be living in the greatest country in the world. So this motion is the right motion to pass through the Senate.

I want to give a message on behalf of the Liberal Party to every Australian war fighter and every Australian veteran warrior who has worn the uniform. Our message is clear: we see you, we respect you, and we will fight, just like we did when we were in government, to make sure the system that's meant to support you does. It's great when something's there—and that's always the answer; 'We have the system in place.' Then you listen, though, and hear how the system is actually not just not working for veterans but failing veterans on a daily basis. We need to unite in this chamber, put politics aside and actually ensure the system that is in place, that's meant to support our veterans, actually works for those veterans. Again, on behalf of the Liberal Party, we will continue to push for the reforms that have been recommended as a result of the royal commission. We will continue to push for them, for the reforms that make one thing clear to every serving member and veteran—that you should never, ever have to choose between your career and your care, you should never have to fight your own system for the support that you have earned. Our country owes you not just a debt of thanks and of gratitude for the great country that we live in; we also owe you the debt to ensure that, if you need care, that care is provided to you properly by the systems. They should never have to fight. How ironic—they continue to fight. They fought for us and then we make them fight again for proper care. They should never have to fight for a system that they have, quite frankly, earned by fighting for this country.

When we were in government, we ensured that we put in place the veterans royal commission. We did it. Why? Because, quite frankly, the rate of veteran suicide and the stories that were being told publicly across Australia by their families demanded a national, independent investigation that could tell the truth and chart a path forward. We also moved to create enduring architecture for prevention and not just a response.

So I would now say to the Labor Party: you are in government. The Liberal Party acted. We built the reform infrastructure. We pursued long-term change because veterans' wellbeing cannot be treated as an afterthought. In supporting Senator Lambie's motion, I say to the government: you now have the clearest road map. The findings are stark. The recommendations are substantial. The stakes are, quite literally, life and death, as Senator Lambie has articulated. We as the opposition stand here ready to work with you as the government to implement the agreed response to the royal commission in full. Our veterans, quite frankly, deserve nothing less.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on behalf of the Greens to indicate we will be supporting this motion. I want to make it clear that the timely medical care and income support veterans need but also the support families need to see that their loved one who is a veteran is getting the health care they need is a core part of the work my office does. I can't tell you how many veterans not just in New South Wales but across the country who are having enormous difficulty just getting to see a GP let alone specialist care contact my office. Indeed, the lack of psychiatric care is not only a crisis situation for veterans; it's a crisis situation for so many people across the country.

But one of the things that keeps coming up when we speak with veterans and when we speak with health providers in in this space is the differential between what DVA pays and what the NDIS pays for the same service. If you come in under the NDIS, the health provider—the GP, physiotherapist or psychiatrist—gets a higher rate for providing services under the NDIS than they do for providing services to veterans. What that means is that veterans go to the back of the queue, if they can even get into the queue. This has been a long-running problem for veterans across the country. We hear it.

I want to give a shout-out to my team who provide that support to the veterans who contact our office. I also want to give a shout-out to the veterans organisations and the families of veterans—that support network that has been wrapped around veterans because they need it just to navigate the system. That is a problem with the system. If you need that kind of support network, if you need the support of your partner, your kids, your parents or advocacy networks just to navigate the system, that shows there's a problem with the system.

But one of the core things the government could do—and I know it's a budget cost—and must do is at least make an equivalence between the rates that are paid to medical providers under the NDIS and the rates that are paid to medical providers when they are helping veterans. That is a matter of urgency. That in and of itself could make a significant difference, and we support it.

I appreciate the lived experience of Senator Lambie and particularly the experience she has told us over the last few weeks and months about veterans not having access to psychiatric beds and psychiatric care. We know that one of the risks of serving can be significant psychological trauma—PTSD and other trauma. If we are going to ask veterans to serve knowing that's a likely risk of service, there must be a commitment to providing the health supports they need when they are in service and when they end service. That should be a non-negotiable. If we ask people to do this work and know that risk is in place, the services need to be there and veterans need to know that those services are there.

When it comes to (f)—calling on the government to immediately implement the royal commission's recommendations, recognising that further delay is placing veterans' lives at risk—we absolutely support the intent of that. My only minor quibble is that I actually don't think we can 'immediately' implement all of them, because they require co-design with veterans, and they require some time. I think that is important. In this space, we've seen the government previously, at the end of the last parliament, rush forward ahead of that co-design. That creates suspicion, and it creates anxiety. Absolutely the recommendations need to be implemented. They need to be implemented urgently. But they need to be implemented with the veterans' community. They need to be implemented with the advice from those support organisations, and they do need to be implemented urgently.

I want to thank Senator Lambie for bringing this motion and I want to indicate our party's support for the care that veterans need. And I stress again: if nothing else comes from this motion but an urgency in the government to ensure that the same rates are paid to veterans as are paid under the NDIS, that will be a win for veterans.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm very pleased to rise in support of this motion. And, through the chair, perhaps I can say to Senator Lambie: it's good to see you back, good to see you in fighting form, fighting for our veterans. So, thank you very much for raising this issue.

I've had discussions with the Australian Medical Association in Queensland, and I am very disturbed by a number of matters they've raised with me. So I hope the minister's staff, or the minister, are listening to this discussion. We've got Senate estimates next week. Please expect some probing questions in relation to some of the information that was conveyed to me by the Australian Medical Association in Queensland. Get your briefs ready. I'm going to give you some topics that you need to prepare on.

Why is it that there are preferential arrangements in terms of fees with some service providers over other service providers? And I'm not just talking about small differences; I'm talking about orders of magnitude in relation to service providers that are providing the same services. Why isn't there an equality of fees paid in relation to the provision of the same service? So, Minister, minister's staff: please do some digging; get on the department, because I'm told there are huge discrepancies in relation to what a psychiatrist in a particular organisation may charge as opposed to a psychiatrist in another organisation, based on the particular tender. So, get digging, Minister; get ready, because you're going to be asked questions about that.

You're also going to be asked questions about how it is sustainable. It is not sustainable that people who are providing specialist services, including psychiatrists, to veterans are not paid at rates that are paid in other situations. The NDIS has been spoken about, but let me talk to you about WorkCover. Let me talk to you about the difference in WorkCover. I'm advised that the psychiatrist fee for a standard assessment is $805 under the current DVA arrangements and is proposed to go up to $1,082. South Australia WorkCover lists a fee of $2,047—twice as much. A complex assessment costs $1,500 under the DVA current schedule, and this is proposed to go up to $2,800. And additional reading time, under South Australia WorkCover, is charged at $618 per hour. There is nothing from the DVA, and here we're talking about extremely complicated conditions.

The same applies in terms of WorkCover, where you get paid for each condition, not a global amount. Quite recently I met a veteran who has multiple conditions, as so many of them do. With the DVA, it doesn't matter whether you've got one condition, five conditions or 10 conditions; the multiple-condition assessment fee is the same: $754. But, under WorkCover Queensland, it's $927 for one condition; DVA, $754. For five conditions, WorkCover Queensland specialists are $4,600; DVA is $754. For 10 conditions, WorkCover Queensland specialists are $9,270; DVA proposed $754. It's the same amount whether it's one condition, five conditions or 10 conditions. How can they get in the front door with that sort of fee arrangement? It's absolutely appalling.

The last point I want to make is the way that health practitioners in this area are being treated. I've been told that specialist health practitioners in this space, who do it out of love for trying to help veterans, are sometimes treated like criminals when all they're trying to do is work their way through very complicated fees. They're getting mixed messages from the department, and then they get hit with letters that basically accuse them of fraud, and they've had a gutful. We need to do everything we can to support these specialists to continue to work for our veterans. They deserve nothing less.

Anthony Chisholm (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

by leave—I move:

Omit paragraph (f), substitute:

(f) calls on the government to implement the government response to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide recommendations, recognising that further delay could place veterans' health at serious risk.

This is a very important issue, which the government is very passionate about and which Minister Keogh has been delivering on as part of the Albanese government. We want to turn attention to the record of what we have done in ensuring that we want all Australians to see serving in our Australian Defence Force as an option and be safe in the knowledge that, whatever may happen in their service, they and their families will be looked after and acknowledged by a grateful nation.

The Albanese Labor government has undertaken significant work to enact real, meaningful and enduring reform for Defence personnel, veterans and their families following the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. The final report of the royal commission was delivered in September 2024 and included 122 recommendations. The government responded in December 2024 agreeing or agreeing in principle to 104 recommendations and noting 17 for further work. At the end of December 2025, 32 recommendations had been implemented and work is underway on a further 89, including some that were initially noted for further work. We anticipate that two-thirds of the recommendations will be implemented by the end of this year. We have taken action on some of the most important recommendations of the royal commission. The new Defence and Veterans' Service Commission is now up and running as at 29 September last year and will provide independent oversight and evidence based advice to improve suicide prevention and wellbeing outcomes for the Defence and veterans community.

We have provided significant funding of $44.5 million over four years for the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission, and we will introduce standalone legislation to ensure the independence of the commission. We have released the Defence and veteran mental health and wellbeing strategy and have begun work to establish a new wellbeing agency by mid-2026 to better support personnel and veterans. We are working on a range of preventive measures to minimise exposures to activities with a link to causing brain injury and establishing a comprehensive brain injury program to improve prevention, early detection and treatment pathways for current and former ADF members with neurocognitive issues.

This follows our significant work following the interim report of the royal commission to reduce the claims backlog at the Department of Veterans' Affairs and the passage of the new VETS act. The Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide found that the veteran compensation scheme was so complex it contributes to suicidality in veterans, highlighting the need for this to be simplified and harmonised. The passage of the VETS act will streamline the current three legislative acts into one single ongoing act so all veteran claims will be assessed under the same scheme from 1 July 2026, ensuring that it's easier to make a claim and faster for DVA to process. This will see support reach veterans and families of veterans more quickly. In the meantime, we've significantly improved the time it takes for claims to be processed for veterans; however, we're working to improve this.

The Australian government is committed to ensuring that veterans have access to quality health services and acknowledges the thousands of providers who treat veterans and their families. In the 2025-26 MYEFO the government provided $58.3 million over three years to strengthen mental health support for veterans across the continuum of care, including expanded access to mental health treatment clinics. These new arrangements will commence from 1 July 2026.

As the minister announced in his speech to the National Press Club at the end of last year, the Department of Veterans' Affairs is updating their fee schedule for report writing, ensuring payments for reports are more consistent with other equivalent jurisdictions and better reflect the actual cost to practitioners. The Department of Veterans' Affairs will publish this guidance shortly. The department also works with hospitals across the nation to make sure appropriate mental health beds are funded and available for veterans when they need them.

In addition to DVA working to expand innovative mental health programs in the country, reducing the need for inpatient admissions, we're working to improve the availability of appropriate training, and therefore care for veterans, through the Military and Veteran Psychiatry Training Program, which provides services training placements in military and veteran mental health. This initiative seeks to improve access to psychiatrists with specialist training in veteran and trauma focused care, decreasing the need for inpatient mental health beds. I'd like to remind families needing mental health support to contact Open Arms on 1800 011 046.

The Albanese government is committed to ensuring Defence and veterans' families receive the care, services and supports that they need and, more importantly, that they deserve.

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I support Senator Lambie's motion and thank her for it. This is urgent. This is a crisis. This is growing. I want to talk more broadly about how to properly fix the system, and I commend Senator Lambie and the others who've talked about the system.

The government is not managing vets, and this has led me to support Senator Lambie. The situation is critical. It needs action, because the neglect is piling issues on issues on issues for ADF members and veterans, and for Australia. This reflects on Australia. The Romans said, 'We send them, we bend them, but we don't mend them!' That could be said of the ADF. Men and women are getting desperate. They're feeling pain, hurt, loneliness, anger, desperation and vulnerability. They're feeling lost and broken. They're very concerned about their mates. We have people coming to us almost daily with legal problems caused by Defence, with medical problems or with psychiatric health problems. These are serious issues. They simply need honesty, mateship, a fair go and being fair dinkum.

These men and women have served our nation here and overseas. They deserve our support. What will it take? The government hasn't cared. Although I commend Senator Chisholm for what he just read out, it needs to go far deeper. The government has made this an urgent issue. The findings of the recent Senate inquiry into the Defence honours and awards system were clear. The government came out and just did what the top brass wanted it to do—overrode the whole lot. It listened to people and then ignored them.

There were the Taipan deaths. After our warnings, after Senator Shoebridge's warnings, after the previous crash—in which, fortunately, no-one died—the chopper was faulty. The chopper model was faulty. The heads-up display was faulty. ADF top brass ignored the standards and now they're trying to hide it. I once listened to a very experienced senior ADF member who had top service in Vietnam and had risen to a very senior rank. He said that 70 per cent of the deaths of Australian soldiers in Vietnam were due to breaches of standards, which shows that Defence measures breaches of standards. Now, here we are with the Taipan chopper fatality, ignoring standards. The ADF senior brass is ignoring standards.

We've had a royal commission into veteran suicide. We've got the ABC, funded by taxpayers, defaming Heston Russell, who did a marvellous job in Afghanistan. When they were found guilty of defaming him, there was no apology. This man serves and then is targeted at home. Defence equipment purchases are hopeless, and people know it. What I'm saying is that this is systemic. It's not just about dollars, Senator Chisholm—through you, Madam Acting Deputy President Hodgins-May. It's about accountability at the senior levels of the Australian Defence Force. Until that's fixed, this will never be fixed.

This shambles is killing people. Vets simply want to be heard. They want their issues addressed, and they want senior ADF responsibilities to be fulfilled. There are 27 million Australians whose security depends on senior ADF personnel. That security is at risk because the key to our Australian Defence Force—the heart, the mateship, the truth—is being attacked and betrayed. Costs are going up; results are coming down. This needs to incorporate a systems approach including senior ADF personnel, who set the tone, and including government ministers and bureaucrats. It's an enormous problem, with the security of 27 million Australians at risk.

Steph Hodgins-May (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The time for this debate has expired. The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to.

Question agreed to.

Original question, as amended, agreed to.