David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. Minister, I was hugely supportive of Labor's defence of the Australian Public Service at the last election and your move to end outsourcing and the overreliance on consultants. I'm concerned by reports today of a new austerity measure and would like to understand how many total jobs will be lost from the APS as a result of your move to require federal departments and agencies to cut five per cent of their annual budget in a single year. How many of these job losses will be in Canberra?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Pocock for the question. The idea that we are imposing a five per cent cut on agencies is incorrect. As I said in a radio interview this morning, what we have asked agencies to do is to think about all the things they're doing and all the programs they administer and to consider whether they are still priorities, because we need to ensure that we've got resources available to meet all of the pressures that are coming the way of the Public Service. I get criticised from those opposite on the issue of fiscal discipline. This is fiscal discipline. You have rules around how you consider new funding, what the existing funding is, what the new priorities are and what the pressures are. Our job is to try and consider that across the board and work out how to make all of the necessary investments.

This exercise has been around ensuring agencies are constantly thinking about what they do. Since we came to government, we've found about $100 billion worth of savings and reprioritisations across government. By finding that, we've been able to invest in the areas that are priorities for this government and meet some of those pressures. This is a continuation of that approach. We are not looking to reduce ASL as part of that. We have been very clear that we thought the Public Service was in terrible shape when we came to government. It had been hollowed out. It had been contracted out. We turned that around in the first term by employing people to permanent Public Service jobs and reducing the use of consultants and contractors. We will continue with that approach, but we will also bring fiscal discipline to the budget process.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, first supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, noting your advice that you will not reduce ASL, can I ask how this austerity measure will make it harder for the National Gallery, say, to plug its leaky roof or for the CSIRO to handle the job cuts, which we now know are more than were lost under the Abbott government.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock would know that we've taken decisions about exempting the national institutions from the additional efficiency dividend that was imposed. We have been very sensitive to the collecting institutions and their relatively modest budgets. We've also invested huge amounts into the national institutions, including the National Gallery. I've been working with the National Gallery for over a year on dealing with their issues of their roof, as have other ministers in this place. I think you've seen our record, which is of actually ensuring that we are protecting the budgets of the national institutions here, investing in them to make sure they continue to do what they do and, in relation to the National Gallery, working with the gallery about the best way and timing to make the investments needed to ensure that that building is safe for the art that it holds, and we'll continue to do so.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, second supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Minister, for that. Minister, please can you table a copy of the correspondence from the Department of Finance to department and agency heads so we can have transparency over the exact nature of the government's ask and who this reduction of five per cent applies to?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sure this is something we can continue in estimates next week. I'm not certain—I'm happy to go back and have a look at the correspondence. It's not the Department of Finance's decision; it's the decision of the government. We took that as part of our budget process. We just think it's good practice. It's not an austerity measure. You can go out and say that in the media as much as you like. This is about fiscal discipline and making sure that, when we make investments in the Public Service, they are using those investments for the highest possible need and the priorities and the pressures that we are trying to manage now. It isn't the case that we can just continue investing layer upon layer upon layer. That is not the world that I operate in. I have to manage this not just in Canberra but across the board. This is simply saying to agencies, 'Look, if you're coming to us for extra money, we want to be convinced that you've been thinking about how you use your current money.'