Penny Allman-Payne (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services. Minister, the robodebt royal commission was meant to mark the end of the government's war on people living in in poverty, but, over two years later, the government still hasn't fully implemented the commission's recommendations and continues to oversee a social security system that punishes people for being poor, treats the vulnerable like criminals and routinely breaches the law without consequence. Nothing can truly make up for the harms and the lives lost because of robodebt, but brave advocates, like Jenny Miller and Kath Madgwick, who join us in the gallery today, continue to fight to ensure no more tragedies occur and that our social safety net supports people rather than punishes them. Minister, how much longer will Kath and Jenny have to wait before the government fulfils its promise to stop chasing old welfare debts and reinstates the six-year limitation on debt recovery as the royal commission intended?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Allman-Payne for the question and acknowledge those in the gallery that she referenced in her question. We have since coming to government been doing a lot of work about making sure that our systems are right and that they're backed legislatively—that we have the legal backing for the way we deliver services to the Australian people, who are right to draw attention to robodebt. There has been enormous work done over the last parliament through both a royal commission and the response to the royal commission. I think that has significantly changed the way the Public Service works and the way we deliver services to the Australian people. There are a number of areas where work is underway, across both Minister Plibersek's and my portfolio in government services, to ensure that the policy intent of the way we deliver services is supported by law. There are some areas which I think have been drawn to attention, including by the ombudsman, where there needs to be further law reform, further legislation to deal with those. We will continue to work through those as we can. There is work underway, I can assure you, across government in relation to that. I'm not specifically aware of the individual situation that you mentioned, but we have taken some decisions around remediation of debts and making the debt recovery system fairer, including looking at low-level debts and how we deal with those. That work is being led by Minister Plibersek, working closely with me as Minister for Government Services.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Allman-Payne, second supplementary?

Penny Allman-Payne (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So-called mutual obligations force people on JobSeeker into pointless box-ticking exercises and compliance activities that deliver billions of dollars to private employment agencies but provide no real help to jobseekers. In the past year, over two million payment suspensions have been issued under this system—a system that two reports have now found may not even be lawful. Minister, can you state with confidence that the Targeted Compliance Framework is operating lawfully?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That doesn't actually fall under the same portfolio as the first question. It's a system that's run under the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. But I am aware of work that she is doing under employment services reform and is considering, in relation to the first part of Senator Allman-Payne's question. In relation to the Targeted Compliance Framework, there has been work done. I'll see if there's more information I can provide. It doesn't fall under my portfolio, but we have provided additional investment to ensure the integrity of the processes supporting mutual obligation requirements and to address concerns with mutual obligation and compliance settings. This work is recognised and is underway. If there's anything I can provide through the relevant minister representing that area, I will.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Allman-Payne, second supplementary?

Penny Allman-Payne (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, given that the government can't say that the Targeted Compliance Framework is lawful, as they've stated in estimates, how can the government continue to operate it? Will social services suspend payment suspensions while this remains in doubt, or will you continue to deprive hundreds of thousands of jobseekers of the funds they need to survive?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Allman-Payne, I'll just remind you that the minister has informed the chamber that it's not her portfolio, but she's happy to take matters and pass them on. I invite her to answer the question in whatever way.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just to clarify, I did not say in my answer what Senator Allman-Payne says I said. I just want to be clear about that. I wasn't there at estimates, so I'm not clear on the evidence that was provided. This is not part of my repping responsibilities. The Targeted Compliance Framework is not run by the Department of Social Services; it's Department of Employment and Workplace Relations. But, on the broader point—and I've been clear about this—there is work underway between social services and myself in government services to make sure our legislative arrangements support the policy intent of the way we deliver services. There are areas where we need to do further work and further law reform to make sure that is the case.