James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Last week's CPI figures confirmed electricity costs have risen—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order. The President would generally follow the order of the call.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, we're up to question 1, and I have the Nationals. That's the order I have.

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, I was the senator who was on my feet, I was called and I was asking my question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, although the customary practice here is that we follow a list. My apologies that I was late. I'm very sorry about that. That has never happened before, and it's unfortunate that it happened today. I understand it is the usual convention that the government proposes the order. I received an email from the government that was sent to all the whips and leaders in this place, and it had question 1 going to the Nationals.

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I hear you, but I was on my feet and I'd been given the call by the person who was in the chair at the time. I'm halfway through my question. I think I should be allowed to finish my question, which I was called on by the person in the chair to do.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Paterson, if I may, the convention at question time is that the order is followed. If we move to a different convention—that we follow whoever jumps—that's a different precedence altogether. I do have the Nationals on my list. I would like the Senate to sort that through. Jumping and getting called is a different convention to what we normally have at question time.

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For clarity, you're taking the call away from me because of a convention? I was given the call by the chair and I was halfway through a question, and you're now taking the call from me because you think there is a convention that prevents me from continuing with my question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's taking a little bit of licence with what I said, Senator Paterson. What I said was, if you are saying you are on your feet and therefore should get the call, if that's the convention we're now using at question time, then it is up to any senator to jump and be given the call. That isn't the way we run question time. We run question time on an order that has been distributed through the chamber. I received one email from the government, where I think the convention is established, that has the Nationals on the list. That's what I'm explaining to the chamber.

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that I had been given the call by the Acting Deputy President, I'm going to continue with my question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Paterson, I'm running the chamber. Please resume your seat. As I said, the problem with that approach is that, if another senator jumps in the chamber, then I'm honour-bound to give them the call—if that's the precedence we are adopting. Senator Watt, on the point of order.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Environment and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To reinforce your ruling, I know there's a lot of up-ending convention going on here by the people opposite at the moment, but one convention they haven't up-ended is that the government of the day sets the order of questions. That has been done. We had an unusual situation where there was a transferring of the chair at the very beginning of question time. I would ask that the convention be upheld.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, I said I would go to Senator Henderson.

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, it would be a very significant departure from precedence in this place if a senator who is on his feet asking a question was put in a position where he was not permitted to finish the question. We appreciate the convention, but—

Government senators interjecting—

Excuse me. Without interjection—we do appreciate the convention. You've made it clear that you weren't in the chair at the time and therefore by reason of the circumstances that have occurred today—and I'm sure they'll be rectified tomorrow—I would ask, and it's very important, that you permit Senator Paterson to continue to ask his question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Henderson, the premise of your statement is not correct. There have been times in the past where a particular senator has sought the call, only for there to be the realisation that a mistake has been made. They've sat down and the mistake has been rectified. What you're asking me today to do is abandon the convention that exists in this place, which is that the government creates the order. You're asking me to allow any senator to jump and ask a question.

I apologise most sincerely for not getting here on time. That was absolutely on me. It's created an additional problem because I would have given the call as it's described. I would suggest that we start the call again and that the call is given to the Nationals. But, if you're on—actually, Senator McKenzie was seeking the call. If you wouldn't mind, Senator Henderson, I'll go to Senator McKenzie and come back to you.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm happy for you to rule.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have ruled, Senator McKenzie. Are you doing the question?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thought The Nationals were called.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, they were.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Last week's CPI figures confirmed electricity costs have risen 23.6 per cent annually. Does the government agree that, when prices are rising that fast, the policy settings are wrong?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't accept the premise of the question. We need to first understand what happened in the decade that the former coalition government were in power. Twenty-four of the 28 coal-fired power stations advised that they were going to close. Those opposite were unable to settle an energy policy in the national interest that allowed for the international transition to clean energy that we are witnessing and which is underway. That has meant that the energy policy was delayed in this country.

Since we've come to government, we've put a number of policy responses in place to deal with that, including a huge investment in renewable energy so that we can secure the jobs, the opportunities and the investments that come in this space. There is more work to do. In the meantime, we're supporting households with the pressure of the cost of living through energy bill rebates, investment in Medicare, investment in childcare and investment in housing.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, first supplementary?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On David Speers's ABC podcast this week, former Treasury secretary Ken Henry said: 'If you have to provide a permanent or semipermanent rebate for something, then you're saying that your policy settings are wrong—your energy policy settings are wrong'. Given the government's only answer to soaring energy prices is an unsustainable rebate, do you agree with Mr Henry that the government's energy policy settings are wrong?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I accept that there have been costs from the delays from the decade of waste that we had under the former government. But, since we've come to power, we have increased the amount of energy available in the grid. We have provided support to households as the transition occurs. We have put into the system more renewable energy, which is the cheapest form of energy, as this transition occurs.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left! I ensured that Senator McKenzie was shown the respect and could ask her question in silence. That is exactly what should be afforded to the minister. I understand she has finished answering her question. Senator McKenzie, do you want to put your second supplementary?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When asked about the government's energy subsidies in May, the Treasurer said:

We only extended it for 6 months, rather than 12 months, because we know that at some point this electricity bill relief will taper away and will have to end.

What is the government's plan to ensure Australians aren't slugged again with even higher energy prices next year when the subsidies are scheduled to end?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We'll continue to invest in our energy system, whether that be through the work that's being led by Minister King or Minister Bowen or Minister Ayres. We operate in the national interest, making sure that we're making decisions for the long term and to support households in the short term.