Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister for Indigenous Australians. Minister, after the August meeting of the Standing Council of Attorneys-General, the government's little gammin SCAG—more like standing council for Aboriginal genocide—which you attended, the Northern Territory and Queensland governments publicly rejected their Closing the Gap commitments, while other states are clearly not complying. With all the powers available to you as a federal minister to change this, what is your plan now, when it is clear that letters, meetings and 'strongly urging' do not work?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd like to put on the record that I didn't attend a standing council on Aboriginal genocide. That's the first thing I'd like to put on the record to the Senate. And yes, the August meeting of the Standing Council of Attorneys-General was an incredibly important meeting, and a very difficult one. It was difficult because, as I've said here in the Senate, there are two jurisdictions in particular that have come into government with the view that getting tough on crime means incarcerating everyone, and that means the Northern Territory and Queensland. So, addressing all the AGs all together in the room was incredibly important for me as well as for the Coalition of Peaks, who, at the joint council in June/July, had asked for that to happen. It's not going to change straightaway, but I can commit to this Senate that I will keep going on it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, first supplementary.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The NT has the second highest incarceration rate in the world and is 90 per cent First Peoples. While police can kill us and walk free, you have the power to overturn any law in the Northern Territory, as the federal government has done before. Will you commit to using your federal powers now to stand up for our people against the racist CLP government?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, you can't make aspersions against federal, state or territory governments. I'm going to ask to you withdraw that last comment.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why can't I criticise a racist government, President—with all due respect?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, I've had numerous discussions with you—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They're clearly racist.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're not in a debate with me. I've asked you to withdraw, and that is what I want you to do—simply withdraw your last statement.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm stating a fact—that a coroner said that they—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, you will cease to be heard if you don't withdraw.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

[inaudible] the violence of the colony. I withdraw.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Minister McCarthy.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, you are correct in terms of the Australian parliament's role with the Northern Territory. It is a legislative assembly. It, like the ACT, can be intervened on, and we saw that with the 2007 intervention into the Northern Territory. And you're right: there is power, within the self-governing act and beyond. But what I've said on the public record is that we have to be responsible about what our response is to them. I'm very conscious of the powers we have, but just because we have great power does not mean we should use it unwisely. So yes, I am looking at every option, to answer your question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Duniam?

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order—I'm reluctant to do it—it's Senator Thorpe's top. You've previously ruled that, if a senator is wearing a top with a slogan on it, you would invite them to put a jacket over it or something like that. I noticed you did so on 16 June 2023 to Senator Thorpe. You might invite her to do the same this time.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe has addressed the issue herself, but I will come back to the chamber and make a statement on this because slogans are what you can read or see that are recognised as offensive. Senator Thorpe was wearing two flags which hang in this chamber.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There's a slogan on it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I couldn't see the slogan. Perhaps I need my eyes checked! But thank you for taking it off, Senator Thorpe—a second supplementary question?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sure the Seed Mob president will forward you a T-shirt of your own. Minister, First Nations kids are being tortured in prisons right now using spit hoods or spit guards. You could use your powers to overturn dangerous laws and ban torture devices from being used on our kids. Is maintaining the illusion of cooperating with states and territories worth the continued abuse of Aboriginal children?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for her question. I certainly reject outright that we are privy to abuse. In terms of cooperation, it is essential in every circumstance, where we can obviously. I have met with the Chief Minister and expressed directly to her my concerns in regard to not only the youth who are being incarcerated but the spit guards and spit hoods there. So—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Our kids are suffering!

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, this is to answer your question, Senator Thorpe. The Northern Territory government is on notice in regard to that, and I'm certainly going to keep this Senate informed as to what we are doing in those circumstances.