Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister for Indigenous Australians. Minister, earlier this month, you acknowledged that the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody said that, to reduce deaths in custody, we must reduce incarceration rates. You said this will be achieved through the Closing the Gap agreement, but it's clear that states and territories are not even trying to reduce incarceration. This week, Victoria is passing laws that will jail more of our people. The NT government is doing the same and is even reintroducing spit hoods for 10-year-old children. What action will you take to hold states and territories accountable when they intentionally break their commitments?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Thorpe, for your question. Recently we held the Joint Council on Closing the Gap in the Northern Territory, and one of the first things we did there, as a joint group with First Nations ministers and the Coalition of Peaks, was to call on all governments to commit and maintain true commitment to the agreement. It is tough. Without a doubt, it is very tough. There are no actual penalties in that agreement for not agreeing to it. I remind all parliaments and cabinets across Australia that they have signed up to this. Both sides of the political spectrum have signed up to it. It is very tough, Senator Thorpe, to be able to ensure that, across the country, all of those jurisdictions adhere to that—in particular, in the area of justice. We've seen rising numbers of Indigenous people being incarcerated, both youths and older people—in particular, in a number of states and the Northern Territory. But I have to keep working at it, Senator Thorpe. I have to keep working with my colleagues here in the federal parliament on all sides, but especially in the cabinet.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, first supplementary?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Northern Territory land councils and NAAJA are calling for federal funding constraints on the Northern Territory government. They know the Commonwealth has more tools at its disposal to drive progress. When will you acknowledge that conversations are not working and withhold funding from states who introduce laws that harm our people?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is correct, Senator Thorpe. Organisations in the Northern Territory, in particular the land councils, are calling for strict control over the funding that goes to the Northern Territory. The difficulty here, Senator Thorpe, is that nearly 80 per cent of the Northern Territory's budget comes from the Commonwealth. So we have to be responsible in our response to the Northern Territory, but we also have to be responsible to all citizens of the Northern Territory who receive that. I am looking at those numbers, and I am looking at those lengths, in terms of the federal agreements, but not just for the Northern Territory. This also has to be about the federal agreements and the communications that we have with all states.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, second supplementary?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The count has just passed 600 deaths in custody since the royal commission. We've had 17 deaths this year. It's not slowing, and incarceration rates are rising. We know the Commonwealth has powers that you've chosen not to use yet. When will you use all the powers you have to stop this? Where is your red line, Minister?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We don't want to see any death in custody or any Australian die in custody. You go into custody or into prison for a reason. Sometimes those reasons are fair, and sometimes they're unfair, but we certainly want to see people come back out if that is what they are in there to do. I think that's really important to point out.

In terms of what we're trying to do, I am working with the Attorney-General, who, I'm very pleased to see, is taking this on and has also met with you, Senator Thorpe, which is an important step in terms of trying to look at the issues around the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody and its outstanding recommendations. We are taking your calls for oversight very seriously, and we will also be looking at this conversation more broadly with all of the attorneys-general from across the country at SCAG when they meet next month.