Welcome back, Senator Wong, but my question is to Senator Farrell, representing the Treasurer. Minister, having had a further 24 hours to prepare, following the question from Senator McGrath yesterday, can you now put on the Senate record the precise definition of 'mortgage stress'?

Thank you, Senator Scarr, for your question. The observation I made yesterday, when Senator Birmingham threw the—

With due respect—

No, you didn't—you threw it at me! You threw it at me in a—

An opposition senator: Did you read it?

Yes, I read it.

Well, again, I raise the question: what's the point of you asking me questions when you already have the answer, and you've prepared the answer? The reality of the situation is that lots and lots of Australians are now facing mortgage stress. There's no doubt about it—we're not disputing that fact. We understand that ordinary Australians are facing it, particularly as a result of that decision earlier in the week by the Reserve Bank to increase the mortgage rates by 0.25 per cent. And I see that the banks have already been quick to implement that increase. But we understand the issues that Australians are facing and, as I said to you in just about every single question that I answered yesterday, we are trying to put downward pressure on inflation and the cost of living.

One of the ways, of course, we're doing that is by that budget surplus that— (Time expired)

Senator Scarr, your first supplementary.

Minister, I note that you referred to 'lots and lots' of Australians facing mortgage stress. I wonder if you could be a little more precise? How many Australians are actually facing mortgage stress and how many more Australians will face mortgage stress as a result of the interest rate rise this week?

The truth of the matter is that the Reserve Bank is an independent organisation in this country. It was independent under your government and it's independent under our government. It makes decisions which, obviously, have an impact on the lives of ordinary Australians. There is not one person in the Labor government who wants to see interest rates going up—

Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham?

President, I have a point of order on direct relevance. This is quite remarkable; this is the minister representing the Treasurer. Yesterday also he was the minister representing the Treasurer.

He was asked for this data yesterday. He was unable to give the data yesterday, but it's inconceivable that somewhere in his briefing, somewhere in his pack, he doesn't have the specific data Senator Scarr has requested. And I ask you to draw him to the particular question, not a lesson on Reserve Bank independence.

Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will remind the minister of your question.

I don't think it helps those Australians who are now finding it difficult to make repayments that you seek to get some political either advantage or satisfaction out of the difficulties that ordinary Australians are now facing. (Time expired)

Despite being asked the same question today as he was asked yesterday, I note the minister can't or won't confirm for the Senate the number of Australian families experiencing mortgage stress under your government. Will the Albanese Labor government take responsibility for its role in skyrocketing mortgage stress and apologise to these Australian families?

I thank Senator Scarr for his second supplementary question. The Albanese government will do what we have been doing since we came to office, which is trying to put downward pressure on inflation. Of course, it's worth noting that the first increase in interest rates was under your government and, of course, as a result of the economic incompetence of your government. But we're putting downward pressure on it. What are some of the things we're doing? Child care—trying to put downward pressure on childcare costs, which you opposed. Electricity—putting caps on gas prices and, again, trying to push down the cost of electricity, when you had no policies in this area. Making sure people— (Time expired)