Senate debates Questions without Notice

Trade: Department of Defence


David Shoebridge

David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens

2:20 pm

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. Over recent years Australians have been watching in increasing horror as reports of war crimes and human rights abuses take place from Yemen to Ukraine, from Gaza to West Papua. Can you tell the Australian public exactly what Australian weapons have been sold under your government and to which countries?

Murray Watt

Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

2:21 pm

Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. Thanks, Senator Farrell, that is the one I was looking for. It's a two-way helping relationship we have here. We are a team—again, something that is a foreign concept to those opposite. The party of individualism even extends to the Senate chamber where they won't help out their mates—in fact, they'd rather stab a knife in the back of their mates.

Sue Lines

Sue Lines President

Senator Watt, I draw you to the question.

Murray Watt

Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

But I digress. Senator Shoebridge, you are aware that I am not able to confirm the details of particular arms exports to any country in the world. You are aware of that because I know that this was covered in some detail at Senate estimates when you were asking questions about this very matter, so you do know that we can't do that. What you also know is that Australia's defence exports are conducted in line with robust export guidelines and international obligations. The Department of Defence assesses each export application on its own merits against the relevant legislative criteria under the Defence Trade Controls Act 2012. This legislation addresses a range of issues, including those that you have raised. Those issues include foreign policy, human rights, national security and Australia's international obligations. If Defence identifies an export would be contrary to Australia's national interest or pose risks to Australia's security, defence or international relations, the permit is refused.

Under this government Australia's export controls regime provides a balance between protecting our defence and security interests, meeting our international obligations, including around human rights and arms trading, and supporting Australia's sovereign industrial capability. I will be clear about this: the government appreciates this is a complex and sensitive area of public policy that must account for security interests, human rights obligations and the viability of domestic industry.

David Shoebridge

David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens

2:23 pm

We know that this year alone your government authorised 52 defence export permits to Israel. As the Israeli government engages in war crimes in Gaza, can you provide the Australian public with information on what military equipment these permits contain and if there are any currently before the government awaiting approval?

Murray Watt

Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

Again, Senator Shoebridge, I refer you to my first answer and I refer you to the many answers you were provided at Senate estimates where you were told that we are not going to provide details about individual arrangements with individual countries. But, as was also pointed out to you, Senator Shoebridge, at Senate estimates, when we're talking about defence exports we're not just talking about weapons and we're not just talking about arms. We're also talking about what is known as dual-use technology, things like radios or other technology and communications equipment, so you shouldn't assume that the existence of a permit means that a weapon has been exported to any country, whether that be Israel or any other.

But, for very good reason, we don't go around broadcasting details of export permits that we have with any particular country, because there are national security issues at stake, and this is a government that takes national security seriously.

David Shoebridge

David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens

2:24 pm

Distressingly, once Australia authorises weapons to leave our shores, we are not obliged in any way to follow up on how they are used. Will the Albanese government take responsibility and introduce policy that requires the Australian government to monitor the military equipment exported from Australia to ensure that it is not used to commit war crimes?

Murray Watt

Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

2:25 pm

Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. Again, you wouldn't expect me, especially as a representing minister, to be making Australian government policy in Senate question time. But the broad position that we take—as I say, we're not broadcasting individual details—is that, as I have already answered, the matters around human rights and the usage of defence exports, whether they be weapons or other forms of technology, are taken into account in the granting of a particular permit or the extension of permits in the future. So these are exactly the types of issues that are taken into account by the Department of Defence in reaching decisions about whether they would grant a particular export permit.

David Shoebridge

David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens

My point of order is to relevance. My question wasn't as to consideration done at the time of the permit but once the weapons have been sold, and the minister is refusing to address that point.

Sue Lines

Sue Lines President

The minister is being relevant, thank you, Senator Shoebridge.

Murray Watt

Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

As I say, Senator Shoebridge, these matters are taken into account. The record of particular buyers of defence exports is taken into account in determining the success or otherwise of a particular export application. I can't really add anything further to what you heard at Senate estimates.