Wendy Askew (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Attorney-General, Senator Watt. Senator, yesterday in your answer to a question about the new drug laws introduced by ACT Labor, you said:

… it is important to recognise that the changes that the ACT have made have been in relation to small quantities of these substances for personal consumption.

These laws will allow people to carry up to a gram of heroin or 1.5 grams of ice. According to the US Department of Justice, that is enough heroin to kill five people, and yet, in the ACT your infringement would be smaller than the fine you would receive for parking outside your space at a shopping centre. Can you please clarify the government's position on how much ice or heroin it is appropriate to carry for personal use, and can you also advise whether other jurisdictions, including New South Wales, have raised concerns with these laws?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Askew. For the second time in two days, the opposition is asking about a matter that is completely the responsibility of a state or territory government—a democratically elected parliament.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you okay with it, Senator Gallagher?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston! I just called the chamber to order.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Askew has referred to part of my answer from yesterday. The majority of my answer yesterday was to point out that this is completely a state and territory issue. Whether or not drug use is criminalised is 100 per cent an issue for state and territory criminal law. As I said yesterday, most of us come to this place to debate serious national matters that concern the Commonwealth of Australia. We are, of course, taking the matter of the trafficking of illicit drugs seriously, as I mentioned yesterday. This bill was passed by the ACT Legislative Assembly in October 2022, and a number of Liberal Party members of the ACT parliament voted for that legislation. Most interestingly, this morning on the radio the ACT Liberal leader, Elizabeth Lee, said:

The Canberra Liberals will always stand up for territory rights and I am very concerned about any step to diminish that.

I do not agree with this action taken by the federal Coalition to seek to overturn legislation that was passed by the ACT Assembly.

So this stunt from the federal Liberal Party doesn't even have the support of the ACT Liberal Party! Did you pick up the phone and talk to the ACT Liberals before you decided to ask questions about this? Did you pick up the phone and talk to the ACT Liberals before you decided to introduce a stunt of a private senators' bill this morning? Your own party doesn't even support what you are doing. We know you don't have any ACT Liberals in the Senate anymore. You don't even have a Liberal Party member for the ACT in the Senate anymore—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister Watt. Senator Askew, a first supplementary?

Wendy Askew (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, as you are no doubt aware, the ACT criminal laws are applied in the Jervis Bay territory, on some flights, on Australian ships and to Australians on foreign ships in some circumstances. Can the minister confirm that police will need to enforce ACT Labor's drug charter in places outside the ACT, including ships and planes?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm not going to get into matters that are completely the responsibility of a state and territory government, and that is—

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ships and planes?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the last time I looked there weren't ships floating around the ACT, unless you're talking about Lake Burley-Griffin—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, a point of order: The minister has in the early stages gone to the 'I'm not going to get into a state or territory matter' response yet again. Yet the specific question asked by Senator Askew went very directly to the impact on matters outside of ACT territorial boundaries and the impact on Australian ships, Australian planes and other areas of law enforcement. I ask you draw the minister to the specifics of the question. Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will draw the minister to the question.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can tell the Senate is that the Albanese government takes the border measures relating to the trafficking of illegal drugs extremely seriously, and I commend our Australian Border Force officers and the AFP for their hard work in ensuring that we keep as many of these substances out of Australia as possible. In fact, there has been an increased effort from the Australian Border Force on these matters. For the 2022-23 financial year, the ABF made 4,296 detections of cocaine at the border, with an estimated total weight of 4,769 kilograms. This represents—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A further point of order on direct relevance. I appreciate the minister is talking about Commonwealth enforcement in relation to drug trafficking. However, again, the specific question asked by Senator Askew went to the enforcement of these laws and their applicability in other circumstances that are outside the ACT territory. It's specific to these laws about possession, not trafficking, and their applicability. If the minister doesn't know, he should take it on notice.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Birmingham, I'll remind the minister of the question.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This represents, in relation to cocaine, a 166 per cent increase in the weight of detections from the previous financial year. That's what's happening under the Albanese government. As for what the ACT government does, it's a matter for them to decide. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Askew, a second supplementary?

Wendy Askew (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

These new drugs will need to be enforced by the AFP, but even if police were forced to carry measuring devices to determine weight, there is no clarity on whether the new laws apply to mixed-weight or pure-weight drugs. They do not have the capacity to determine the substance type, and there is no clarity on how it works alongside Commonwealth law. How will the AFP enforce this?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, these are all very good matters to put to the ACT parliament, who have the responsibility for passing this legislation. We know that the federal coalition has a long history of trampling over territory rights. They've done it for the Northern Territory. They've done it to the ACT in relation to euthanasia laws. Now, they're doing it in relation to drug criminalisation laws. It would appear, as I say, that they don't even have support from the ACT Liberal Party when they decide to stomp into this chamber to trample on territory rights. There are other occasions when the federal Liberals have stood up for territory rights. In fact, one of them is sitting right there—Senator Birmingham. It was always anachronistic for the Commonwealth to have decided that the one limitation on the territories compared to the states would be on the questions of voluntary euthanasia or voluntary assisted dying. So there was a time when Senator Birmingham stood up for territory rights, but we know that Senator Birmingham stopped standing up for anything quite a long time ago.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That was an awful personal reflection.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr, why are you on your feet? Order! No interjections across the chamber. Senator Scarr.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There was a personal reflection. The phrase used, which was awful—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do not repeat the phrase. I didn't hear it because—

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He should withdraw.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr, please resume your seat. In the spirit of a harmonious chamber—if that's possible—Minister Watt, if you would withdraw the comment.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you.