Senate debates Questions without Notice
Defence Procurement: Submarines
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
2:42 pm
My question is to Minister Farrell, the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. How many kilograms of highly enriched uranium—that's, nuclear weapons grade uranium—will be carried on each of the Virginia class submarines Australia is intending to acquire under the AUKUS submarine deal? How much, Minister?
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
I thank Senator Shoebridge. The Australian government has taken the decision—and it's a decision I appreciate that you and your party don't agree with—to go down the track of replacing our Collins class submarines, which were built in South Australia, with nuclear powered submarines. There's a staged process here. As we know, the former government for nine years had a series of—
Sue Lines President
Senator Shoebridge, I have drawn to your attention before not to stand on your feet and call 'point of order'. I am trying to keep order in this place, and doing disorderly things like that does not assist. Senator Shoebridge?
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
My point of order is on relevance. My question was very simple: how much highly enriched uranium will each of these Virginia class submarines carry? I was not requesting a history lesson about the failure of the coalition.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. You have made your point of order. I remind the minister of your question. Minister.
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
I don't think you can deal with the issue that you're seeking to ask questions about without looking back at the nine long years of neglect—
Opposition senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Order on my left! I have a senator on his feet. Senator Shoebridge.
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
It's the same point of order, President.
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
The minister is even ignoring your direction.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. I will remind the minister of the question.
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
Thank you, President. Well, I know it aggravates the opposition to keep referring to the fact that in nine long years you couldn't make a single decision about the issue of—
Sue Lines President
Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge.
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
It's the same point of outer, but now the minister has twice flouted your direction to him. I ask you to call him to order.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Shoebridge.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Order! I have called the Senate to order. I will again remind the minister of the question. Minister, please continue.
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
Thank you, President. The decision that we have made—and, as I have pointed out earlier, I—
Opposition senators interjecting—
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
No, there's still a few up there.
Opposition senators interjecting—
No, we're all awake. We're all sound asleep—all wide awake. On the issue which Senator Shoebridge raises, of course I understand he doesn't agree with the decision to shift to— (Time expired)
Sue Lines President
Senator Shoebridge, first supplementary?
Oppo sition senators interjecting—
Just a moment, Senator Shoebridge. Order on my left! I have a senator waiting to ask a question.
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
2:46 pm
Given it is impossible for nuclear regulation, safety or disposal to be effective if you refuse to say, as you did just then—or don't know, as is probably the case—how much weapons-grade uranium these submarines will carry, how can this decision be in line with our international non-proliferation treaty obligations, and why won't you tell the truth?
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
2:47 pm
I thank Senator Shoebridge for his first supplementary question. I totally reject the proposition that we're not telling the truth. Unlike the former government, we have been as absolutely open as we can about the way forward on our defence and security issues. Only last week, the Prime Minister sat with the American President and the English Prime Minister to explain to the world—and, of course, subsequent to that to our neighbours in this region—exactly what it is—
Sue Lines President
Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge.
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
My question was about nuclear regulation, safety and disposal, not the meeting some weeks ago, and the minister is again refusing to be relevant.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. You did go to the non-proliferation treaty and you did talk about telling the truth as well. I do believe the minister's being relevant, but I shall continue to listen carefully.
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
Thank you, President. We will honour all of our obligations under our treaties, and that was made very clear by the Prime Minister and the defence minister in all of the discussions— (Time expired)
David Shoebridge NSW, Australian Greens
2:48 pm
Given it's on the public record from the likes of radiation and nuclear safety expert Emeritus Professor Ian Lowe that each Virginia class submarine carries 200 kilograms of weapons-grade uranium, more than three times the amount of enriched uranium used in the bombing of Hiroshima, what guarantees are you providing on how that material can be safely accommodated in major population centres like Port Kembla?
Don Farrell SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism
2:49 pm
I thank Senator Shoebridge for his second supplementary question. To be honest with you, I'm not sure that decisions have been made about where the submarines will be docked on the east coast of Australia, so I'm not sure that your assertion that it relates to Port Kembla is correct. Look, we have treaty obligations. We support those treaty obligations. We will ensure that we comply with all of our international obligations in respect of nuclear issues. That includes the Treaty of Rarotonga. Rest assured that every one of our international obligations— (Time expired)