Senate debates
Friday, 24 March 2023
Business
Rearrangement
9:31 am
Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I seek leave to move a motion relating to consideration of legislation as circulated in the chamber. It would allow for consideration this morning of the Criminal Code Amendment (Prohibition of Nazi Symbols) Bill 2023.
Leave not granted.
Pursuant to contingent notice of motion standing in my name, I move:
That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent Senator Birmingham moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to give precedence to a motion that would provide for consideration of the Criminal Code Amendment (Prohibition of Nazi Symbols) Bill 2023.
Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Are you going to move the expulsion of your far-right members?
Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The unity with which all mainstream political parties in Australia have stood against Nazi ideology, Nazi sympathisers and Nazi propaganda—
Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
You sent the text messages.
Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
has provided a strong and enduring protection against a known evil being able to inflict harm on our society.
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
You are a disgrace.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Birmingham, could you resume your seat.
Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
You're a disgrace.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Watt, order! Senator Henderson, please resume your seat. I will come back to you.
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
President—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I've asked you to resume your seat, Senator Henderson.
Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Filthy grub.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Cash, I ask you to withdraw that remark.
Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I withdraw.
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
President, Senator Watt said the most disgraceful thing. He is to withdraw it. I am disgusted in you. I'm so disgusted in you.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Henderson, I did not hear the remark, but in the interests of the Senate I ask Senator Watt to withdraw.
Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Madam President, I withdraw. I referred to the text messages that Senator Henderson sent. That's what I said. I withdraw.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you. I think we just need to take a moment. I ask senators to listen to the debate about the suspension of the standing orders to rearrange the business. I remind senators that that is really what we are talking about—about why we think it's urgent to rearrange the business. I ask senators to refrain from interjecting across the chamber.
Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
In light of what we just saw at the commencement of this debate, I'm going to repeat the first couple of sentences of my contribution because I think they are as important as ever.
The unity with which all mainstream political parties in Australia have stood against Nazi ideology, Nazi sympathisers and Nazi propaganda has provided a strong and enduring protection against a known evil being able to inflict harm on our society. To fracture that unity would be to open a crack to people whose views are repugnant, are dangerous and are divisive. We must continue to stand as one against an ideology that is most associated—
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Birmingham, I'm sorry. I'm asking you to resume your seat. I have asked senators to listen in respectful silence. Interjections to other senators across the chamber is incredibly disorderly.
Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I find it remarkable that I'm having to be sat down on multiple occasions due to interjections on an issue like this.
We must continue to stand as one against an ideology that is most associated with acts of genocide, mass murder and other forms of persecution. As a nation, we have successfully stood against Nazism in a number of ways, and we should seek to continue to do so. We do so through active remembrance, awareness and knowledge. The horrors of the Holocaust must never be forgotten, and I, alongside former Treasurer Josh Frydenberg and many other members of the former government, are proud of what we did to establish Holocaust museums in a number of cities around Australia to ensure that we raised that type of awareness. We do so through efforts, at home and globally, to call out and to stamp out antisemitism.
A powerful example of this is Australia's membership of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, membership that we took up on 4 June 2019, becoming the 33rd member country to do so, and in doing so adopting the following nonlegally binding wording of the definition of antisemitism:
Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.
This working definition provides a strong basis, through IHRA and the work of many, to make sure that we are able to call out and weed out antisemitism where and when it occurs.
We stand against, and protect ourselves against, Nazism by balancing our commitment to freedom of speech and freedom of association with actions to identify, monitor and act against ideologically motivated or religiously motivated extremism, especially where it can manifest itself in acts of violence or intimidation. For that, we have throughout the years increased the funding, the resourcing, the reporting, the openness and the transparency of our security agencies. We work with others, including the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, who report frequently on acts of antisemitism and, concerningly, have reported their growth in recent times.
We have an individual responsibility to call out such actions. I did so recently myself when I came home from Canberra to find a brochure in my letterbox. 'Calling all white Australians', it was headlined, and it called to action to associate with organisations that I find repugnant in the promotion of their actions and their approach. It is for all of us to take every opportunity to do so, and we must also protect ourselves against Nazism and antisemitism by preventing the glorification of them in any way. That is what this bill, which we seek to bring on, does.
We seek to bring this bill on in light of the rise of antisemitism that has been reported. We seek to bring it on in light of debates that have occurred in and around this place during the course of this week which we think means it is important to send a strong united signal on these matters. This bill is a modest and proportionate measure that responds to the risk to our country of civil discourse. We want to make sure that through this bill we are modelling it against similar legislation. I urge the Senate to enable this bill to be considered so we can take the type of strong and united stance that we should.
9:39 am
Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The government will not be supporting the suspension motion today. I will speak to the suspension before getting to the substance. The government does not support the approach that the opposition have taken, without notice, to bring forward a bill that was introduced this week—I think yesterday—by Senator Cash and for it to now take precedence over all other business. It hasn't been through any process of scrutiny. It hasn't had any opportunity for consultation. The opposition have a spot next week for private senators' bills. They haven't even listed this for that; they've listed another bill. I think that goes to the credibility about the seriousness with which they want this matter dealt with.
Senators know that the government has been working on matters relating to the prohibition of Nazi symbols for some time, and I think we can all stand in this place and say there is no place in Australian society for public displays of Nazi symbols or the Nazi salute. But I think we should also acknowledge that this is a complex area of law, and any move to ban Nazi symbols deserves serious consideration—more than an overnight drafting job with which the Senate has not been given the opportunity to scrutinise or consult on, or, indeed, take through our own processes, which, as people know, is custom and practice in this place. There are many questions about the opposition's proposal, including what head of constitutional power it purports to rely on. This is serious work that needs to be done. It deserves a serious approach. The Senate should enforce that today by not allowing the bringing on of this bill, including, I note, being allowed to debate for two hours and then the guillotine being put. That's not really an approach that the Senate would normally take without consultation across the chamber and, indeed, through our processes.
On the substance of the bill that the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate wants to move: let's not forget that last weekend in Victoria a member of the Victorian Liberal Party attended a rally where Nazi symbols and the Nazi salute were displayed. Let's not forget that. The Leader of the Opposition in Victoria moved immediately to expel that member from the Liberal Party, decisively and quickly, and yet, despite the grandstanding that we're hearing from Senator Birmingham this morning about all moving with a united and strong voice, where is the condemnation of that? Where is that? Why is the trans community being used as a political punching bag for other motivations? Where is the condemnation of that?
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I've asked for silence during this debate, and I'm going to insist upon it.
Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Where is the condemnation of that? Where is the condemnation of using the trans community to peddle other hate and division? Where is the condemnation of that? The political punching bag that is a vulnerable group in Australia continuously gets pulled out and used in a way that is appalling in this country. Where's the condemnation of that? Let's not forget what has led us to this point today in the grandstanding from Senator Birmingham.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I've asked for silence. If you want to contribute, stand and seek the call, otherwise listen in respectful silence.
Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Where is the condemnation from Mr Dutton of reports of senior members of Mr Dutton's front bench undermining the Victorian opposition leader's attempts to stand up to right-wing extremism in his party? Where is the condemnation of that? They are questions that only the Liberal Party can answer, I'm afraid. But there are senators in this place that are supporting what we saw, through the way they engage with the Victorian Liberal Party on what we saw on the weekend.
I think we deserve better. I think the Australian people deserve better. The Senate should stand united. We should stand together. We should send a strong voice about the events that we saw in Victoria and what have led, I think, to this bill being drafted this week. We definitely should do that, but that's not what's happening. Let's use the Practice custom of this place, which is to put bills into the chamber, have them go through a process, have them referred to committees if necessary and then have them brought back for debate during the time that's allocated in this chamber, not try and move a stunt when there are other things that should be happening, standing united on a whole range of fronts. This bill that the leader seeks to move today needs serious consideration, not a stunt. (Time expired)
9:45 am
Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It's extremely disappointing that this debate has kicked off the way it has today. I don't think that anything that we've displayed to the Australian people in the last 15 minutes, since the starting of this parliament, is anything to be proud of. The politicking over this issue—which is serious, which is sensitive, which is fundamentally about the values of a respectful, democratic nation—should not be drawn into the gutter.
On the matter of the suspension to bring this bill on, I do not believe that this is the right way to go about it. I think the Attorney-General and the government of the day need to take this issue seriously and come forward with a proper process to deal with this. Nazi symbols being displayed in this country is wrong. That needs to be managed, but you don't do it by springing a debate in this place without a proper process.
The private members' bill that is being asked to be brought on today has not been through—it was only introduced yesterday. It needs to go through a proper process. And whether it is a committee of the Senate or, indeed, in consultation with the Attorney-General, I suggest that the leader of the opposition has an honest and direct conversation with the government about how we can move forward as a united parliament to stand for what is right, and to call out what is wrong.
Doing it today is not the appropriate way of going about it, and if you have any doubt in your mind about that, just go back and look at what the last 15 minutes in this place has displayed. It's a disgrace. You want the Australian people to believe you? Lift your game. We will not be supporting the suspension. We urge those in this place to work together to deal with this properly. Politicking over Nazi symbols is wrong.
9:47 am
Pauline Hanson (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
One Nation will not be supporting the suspension to bring this motion on. We were called to have another day in this chamber to deal with important legislation about the reconstruction fund and Australian housing. That is what is important for us to discuss today. This bill was only brought into the lower house earlier this week and into this chamber yesterday. I think there should be time to debate this, not to be cut off and guillotined.
I believe that every member in this house would vote to get rid of Nazi symbols—we would definitely vote for it—but I've got to respond to Senator Gallagher's comments about what happened at that meeting in Victoria. It is utterly disgusting to say that because a Liberal MP attends a rally, and because some other Nazi sympathisers—if they were truly that, or was it really a set-up? I've spoken to people who were actually there. Nazi sympathisers actually don't hold hands. That's not their character. Isn't it funny that a couple of them were actually holding hands at the rally? Wouldn't you ask the question: why were they just allowed to proceed through to the rally, given free entrance into that area by the police? Was it truly real or was it a set-up? That's how I see it; it was a set-up. You talk about the politics of that woman, who had every right to attend it.
Are you going to say the same about me because I attended the rally out the front yesterday, because I went there to stand up for women to have a voice in this nation and not be dragged down because of people who are transgender and their rights? Where are the rights of the women in this nation—the right to have their sport, the right to go to their facilities, the rights to be called a woman and to be a mother? They are being hijacked for someone who is not biologically a female. And because a Liberal MP turns up at a rally to voice the concerns of women, you actually make the statement—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Hanson, I'm sorry; please resume your seat. Again, the interjections across the chamber, particularly when I've called for order a number of times, are disrespectful and disorderly.
Pauline Hanson (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Just stop your politicking in this place. Stop throwing rubbish around the place and mud at each other, because it doesn't make us look like the people we should be in this nation—and just prior to an election. It's not up to minister Peter Dutton, opposition leader of the Liberal Party, to say what the Liberal Party's Leader of the Opposition in Victoria should do. It's nothing to do with minister Peter Dutton. It is up to the members down there, and the members, I understand, are not going to throw her out of the party.
I get frustrated and annoyed with the failure of this place to deal with the real issues. Like I said, no-one likes the Nazi symbols, and the people who were hurt the most out of this were the Jewish community. You have antisemitism that goes on, and it just has to stop. People have to stop and respect other people's views on many things. Yes, Nazi symbols, by all means, but let's debate it, because the words are only about Nazi symbols. I want to know how far you want to go with this. We need to debate it. We need to know what it means. To put it on this floor in two hours is just ridiculous. Put it up at a sensible time. I'd love to have a lot of the bills I put up heard, and to have a say on them, but I'm not given that opportunity.
Let's deal with the bills that have been brought before this parliament today. I think it's more important to the people of this nation that we deal with the questions of whether we get can get the manufacturing industry going and whether we can actually deal with the housing problem. A lot of people are sleeping in their cars. Yesterday, one fella rang me up desperate because he's been sleeping in his car for the last year. That's because he's a nurse and, because he refuses to have the vaccination, he can't get a job. That's how desperate people are. And you're worried about Nazi symbols? Wake up!
9:52 am
Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I rise in support of the suspension motion, moved by Senator Birmingham, to bring on for debate the Criminal Code Amendment (Prohibition of Nazi Symbols) Bill 2023, which would prohibit the display of Nazi symbols.
Some in this place today have said that this bill is not an important bill to be brought on. Well, I say: shame on them! If this bill does not deserve precedence, quite frankly, I don't know what bill does. Every Australian should find the actions of that small group of protesters who dared to use the Nazi salute offensive, and every senator in this place, without a doubt, should condemn those actions. Those who display Nazi symbols or use the Nazi salute either are ignorant of the past or are deliberately promoting evil. As someone who in the 1990s had the privilege of living in Israel, let me assure you that this is something that is still on their minds today. There is absolutely no place in civil society for Nazi symbols, which, as we all know, are directly linked to one of the most heinous regimes in the history of the world.
Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany carried out the deliberate, calculated and organised mass murder of six million European Jews, as well as five million prisoners of war and other victims. The Nazis' systemic and state sponsored campaign of persecution dehumanised an entire people. But it was much worse than that. The Nazi regime's industrialised extermination resulted in the Holocaust, one of the worst crimes ever committed in history. There can be no doubt that the Nazi regime was one of the greatest evils ever visited upon humanity. Nazism is a vile ideology of unparalleled hate.
Because of what they represent—this evil, this terror—Nazi symbols are no ordinary symbols. We must all condemn Nazi symbols in any form that they are found or displayed. What we saw unfold on the streets of Melbourne last weekend was absolutely unacceptable and quite disgraceful. Again I say that every Australian should find the actions of a small group of protesters who used the Nazi salute offensive, and every senator in this place should condemn those actions. There is no doubt the Nazi salute is a symbol clearly associated with Nazi ideology and has no place in Australian public life. All Australians are diminished by the sharing and glorification of an ideology which is characterised by genocide, mass murder and other forms of persecution.
So to those who say this bill is not a matter of urgency I say that is exactly why this bill is a matter of urgency and needs to be debated and passed by the Senate. We are all here in this place to show leadership within our community, so let's live up to that, because this morning we can stand together against these vile bigots.
9:57 am
Anthony Chisholm (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
This is an important and substantial issue. I too stand with those who have said that there is no place in this country for public displays of Nazi symbols or the Nazi salute, or anti-Semitism as well. But it is for the reason that it is an important and substantial issue that it deserves so much more attention and due process than what the opposition have proposed here today. They introduced the bill into the Senate yesterday, and then they have brought on this stunt today in an attempt to get this debated.
Because it is of such importance, it deserves the full attention of the Senate and for the processes of the Senate to be allowed to deal with this bill appropriately. The opposition have time allocated to them next Thursday to debate and consider private senators' bills of their choosing. My understanding, as I think Senator Gallagher said, is that they haven't indicated that they will use that time for this bill that they are trying to suspend standing orders to debate today. So you do have to wonder what was the sudden motivation for those opposite to bring this bill on today. It is the fact that there are options available to them on the issues raised by what we saw on the steps of the Victorian parliament last week. They can show leadership or they can pursue stunts in this chamber, like they did in the House of Representatives. It is disappointing that the federal Liberals have chosen stunts over substance and showing leadership. That is what they are doing here today by pursuing this and unleashing this debate.
When you compare the actions of Mr Pesutto, the Victorian Liberal leader, who was prepared to take a stand and say he didn't want this person in his parliamentary team, with what the federal Liberals have chosen to do this week, there is a real contrast. We have an opposition that, 10 months ago, concluded 10 years in government. They had 10 years to take action and legislate on something like this, yet all of a sudden, this week, we see a stunt in the House of Representatives. We now see a stunt in the Senate as well, on a day, as Senator Hanson said, that everyone knew had been set aside to discuss government business, so you do have to question their motivation.
You also have to question the lack of leadership from the federal Liberals. We know some senators have been out there criticising Mr Pesutto for the stance that he took. Instead of backing Mr Pesutto, the federal Liberals have chosen stunts over substance and showing leadership. That's what they are doing in this chamber today. It is right that the Senate opposes this motion. This bill does deserve absolute scrutiny and debate that aren't possible to do in the two hours that this motion allows for, so it is the right thing to oppose it. It is the right thing to get on with government business. It is a shabby way for those opposite to treat such an important issue. It is not appropriate for a party of government to treat such an important issue in such a way that they're prepared to pull a stunt like this instead of showing the leadership that the Victorian Liberal leader did.
10:02 am
Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I stand to support this suspension motion because of the importance of the issue currently being sought to be put before this chamber. It is extraordinarily disappointing to be standing here today with those opposite politicising something that could not be more important to humanity—not just to Australia and not just to this place but to humanity itself. To come in here and accuse us of pulling a stunt, as has just been done by those opposite, demeans them and absolutely shows their lack of understanding of the importance of this issue. I say to you: shame on you.
Shame on you across the chamber for not understanding how unbelievably painful this must be for so many Jews around the world—to think that you would suggest that this is a stunt. I say to you: this is a matter of urgency. It is absolutely a matter of urgency. There is absolutely no place in Australia, in our community—there should be no place in the world—for Nazi symbols. Without doubt, they are directly linked to the worst crimes committed against humanity in any of our living history. This salute, and these symbols, represents absolute evil. It represents terror. It represents the attempted destruction of a group of people in our population. We must all condemn any form of Nazism, and that goes to their symbols and their salutes. Shame on those opposite for not supporting this very important issue.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The time for this debate has expired. The question is that the suspension motion moved by Senator Birmingham be agreed to.