Dean Smith WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
2:11 pm
My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Will the level of government spending in the Albanese government's first budget be higher or lower than was projected in the pre-election fiscal outlook?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
2:12 pm
You'll have to wait and see.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Order! Order! I'm going to wait for quiet on both sides. Order!
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
The short answer to the question from Senator Smith—and I thank him for the question—is: you'll have to wait and see. That's what happens when you're in opposition. The budget will be published and you will be able to see.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Well, I think anybody who followed Labor's very comprehensive fiscal plan for a better budget and a better future—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Minister, please resume your seat. Order! I'm aware that you're standing, Senator Smith; I'm waiting for quiet. Senator Smith?
Dean Smith WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
A point of order, Madam President: standing order 211—I'm just wondering whether Senator Gallagher could let us know how many pages are in the plan.
Sue Lines President
That might be a supplementary question you may wish to pursue, Senator Smith. Minister, please continue.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Senator Smith, that was tried in the campaign and it didn't go very far, I must say! It's more about the content, I think, than the number of pages. This is a very successful plan that we outlined—very successful, as evidenced by this. That's how successful this plan was.
The budget will be released in the normal way, with the papers that accompany it. I would say, because I do respect Senator Smith: we are going through a process, which we are being quite clear about, of looking at previous budget measures from the March budget, about which ones of those should go ahead and which ones might not need to go ahead. We're looking at savings, where they can be sensibly found; we're implementing our savings on consultants and contractors—the audit of waste and rorts, indeed, that we are looking at—and we're going through it, program by program, with a big red pen—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Well, we are going to be fiscally responsible. We are not going to be the vandals that you were, where you would just get billions of dollars and go: 'You know what? Barnaby Joyce wants some money somewhere, so here we go! We'll chuck it over there. We'll chuck it over here—Building Better Regions Fund. Oh, sorry, Barnaby; here's some more money!'
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
We're not going to do that. We're not going to do it; it's not right!
Sarah Henderson Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications
Madam President, I have a point of order. Could I ask the minister to refer to members by their proper names.
Sue Lines President
I will draw that to the minister's attention, thank you, Senator Henderson. I remind all senators that people in this chamber and the other chamber need to be referred to by their correct titles.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
The point I was making is that we will be fiscally responsible. We want to build a budget for a better future for Australia. (Time expired)
Dean Smith WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
2:15 pm
Will decisions of the Albanese government in its first budget add, in net terms, to government spending and debt or reduce government spending and debt?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
As we've been clear—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Order! Minister, resume your seat. Senator Wong and Senator Henderson: exchanges across the chamber are disorderly.
An honourable senator interjecting—
I beg your pardon if it wasn't you, but it is very hard with the level of noise to work out who is making the noise. But comments across the chamber are disorderly.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
The answer to that question is contingent on a number of decisions that are yet to be made through the budget—
An honourable senator interjecting—
Well, what do you expect? I'm being honest with you! I'm being honest—
Catryna Bilyk Tasmania, Australian Labor Party
Madam President, I'm having huge trouble hearing Senator Gallagher's wonderful response, so could you quieten people down?
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Bilyk. I'm trying my very best, which is why I keep sitting the minister down, sadly.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Order! Senators Wong and Birmingham! Minister, please continue.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
The very clear answer is that the decisions that will be made—to answer his question—are going to be made during the budget process, which is underway now. But I can tell you that they will end the rorts, they will end the waste and they will make the savings we promised in reducing advertising. Remember all those advertising campaigns that were always ready to go before the actual programs were ready? They were out the door pretty quickly. The budget will be handed down on 25 October.
Dean Smith WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
2:17 pm
If government spending will be higher—and I notice that Senator Gallagher didn't rule that out—under the Albanese government, won't this see fiscal policy work against monetary policy and mean that the Albanese government's spending will place further upward pressure on interest rates?
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Senators:
Opposition senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
I'm not going to call the minister until there is quiet.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines President
Senator McGrath and Senator Wong, I am waiting. Minister.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
2:18 pm
I think they've set Senator Smith up here, because, on the one hand, we've had arguments to spend $3 billion more over six months for petrol excise and, on the other hand, I'm being asked whether if we're spending more that's going to put pressure on interest rates.
Sue Lines President
Minister, please assume your seat. Senator Dean Smith, a point of order?
Dean Smith WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
Thank you, Madam President; it's on standing order 211. I was very, very specific: I wanted to know whether or not there was a risk that the government's spending would mean that its monetary policy would end up working against fiscal policy here.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Smith. I believe that the minister is being directly relevant, but let's continue with her response. Minister.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Thank you, President. Well, the opposition's policies would be working against monetary policy, I'd have to say—or, as I understand them. I'm not sure who's got the power at the moment. But this question comes from the highest-spending, highest-borrowing government in Australia's history. That's what you guys were. My job is to try to fix that: to rebalance the budget, end the rorts, tidy up the waste, get rid of the waste, find the savings where I can find them and invest in the productive side of the economy, which is absolutely in line, hand-in-hand, with monetary policy if you are investing in the productive side of the economy and putting downward pressure on the inflation and interest rates that we inherited from you lot!